Meet the man who’s in love with India, Detroit, and Technology. You're going to meet Warren Harris, the CEO of Tata Technologies. In this episode, we explore automotive business culture, Indian business culture, his leadership style, the Patrick Lencioni influence, and why Warren believes in the health of his organization, and how he builds a cohesive leadership team.
01:38 Warren’s story
08:32 Indian business culture
17:04 Creating a safe environment
26:55 Leadership style
33:39 Gravitas
37:00 How do you start your day?
40:55 Advice to your 25yr old self
44:49 Learning from the pandemic
51:33 The legacy
Mentioned in this episode:
[Transcript]
Welcome to the Finding Gravitas podcast brought to you by Gravitas Detroit. Looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding Gravitas is the podcast for you. gravitas is the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan Griffiths that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur, leadership coach, keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for Gravitas.
Jan Griffiths:In this episode, you'll meet a man who is in love with India, Detroit, and technology. You're going to meet Warren Harris, the CEO of Tata Technologies. In this episode, we explore automotive business culture, Indian business culture, his leadership style, the Patrick Lencioni influence, and why Warren believes in the health of his organization, and how he builds a cohesive leadership team. Warren, welcome to the show.
Warren Harris:Great to be here.
Jan Griffiths:So let's get into this. What is your story?
Warren Harris:Well, I was born on the well in the UK, just outside of Liverpool across the river Mersey. I was born into relatively humble beginnings. My father was a welder. My mum was a nurse. I was the first person from my extended family to go to university. I went to university in Cardiff. Went to the University of Wales there, I did a mechanical engineering degree. And then got a job in London with Babcock International. That was a power station company. Did my I met Keith graining Institute of mechanical engineering training, became a chartered engineer, went off and got married and came back and found out that Babcock International was the victim of one of those leveraged buyouts in the 80s. There were management consultants that were running everywhere. And the opportunities that prompted me to join Babcock, all of a sudden evaporated. And so I left and I joined the Design Services Bureau on the outskirts of London. I remember going into the facility that they had, which was an old stately home, and there was a Formula One vehicle in the foyer. And I remember interviewing for the job and resigning myself to whatever they offered me I was going to take it was such a great facility and a great environment. got the job, I joined as applications and an interface engineer. And I didn't know that this company had one customer, they were supporting Volvo cars. Volvo was in the midst of the Volvo 850 project. There were a bunch of British engineers that were working in Gothenburg, Sweden changed its tax laws, all of the British engineers fled overnight. And so a Swedish businessman, put together a company that provided the opportunity for these British engineers to complete the Volvo 850. And it was that company that I joined at the time, Volvo were fairly progressive in terms of the use of computer aided design. And my job was to write software, to interface CAD systems with CNC machines and digitizers. And so I did that for about six to nine months, what we were doing came to the attention of IBM and IBM invited us to get involved in some of the CAD CAM baseball activities in different parts of the world. And so I had the opportunity to travel. And one of the opportunities that they afforded us, gave me the chance to come to Detroit. And so I came to Detroit in December 1988, on one of those pan-am flights that stopped in Montreal, and got assigned to the old Jeep and truck facility on Plymouth Road. And my job for 30 days was to make CATIA, which was the system that IBM was supporting. My job was to make the tear look like the old Ford pdgf system, because a lot of the people inside of the Jeep or truck facility, were using that system. So I did that for 30 days, that we were successful in winning the benchmark. And 30 days became three months and then six months and I've had a relationship with Detroit now for more than 30 years. During my time in Detroit, the company that I had joined, was bought by a public company, that public company in 1992 got over leveraged and so divisions were invited to buy themselves out. So I got involved in a management buyout, I was running the North American business at the ripe age of 29. And so I was given the opportunity to participate with 10 others to buy the company. So I mortgaged my house, we beg, steal, and borrow enough money to pay the price that was, was being positioned. We spent about three or four years making payroll and keeping the wolf from the door and managing to bootstrap the organization. out through the 90s. At the end of the 90s, we decided that we wanted to go public, I was appointed as the chief executive of that company. And initially, we decided we wanted to go public in 2001 2001 was not a good time to take companies public with 911. And with the.com, bubble bursting. And so we put that off until 2004. We took the company public in London in 2004. And we had a successful IPO, we were looking forward to running the company independently. And then along came the Tata Group, and suggested that we should think about putting what we built in Europe and North America, with what was the outsourced Engineering and IT of Tata Motors. And so we spent about 10 months looking at the viability of that I went to India, fell in love with the potential that the country represented, and the business opportunity represented, spent a little bit of time convincing my colleagues that this was a good thing for the company. And we managed to construct a deal that was concentrated in October 2005. I became the chief operating officer of that company, and then ran the operations from here in Detroit until 2015, when I was appointed Chief Executive of what is now Tata technologies.
Jan Griffiths:Wow, that's quite a story. What exactly does Tata technologies do? Because that seems like a pretty broad statement.
Warren Harris:Yeah, we are the sort of engineering services and product development. IT arm of the Tata Group, we invest the Tata set up the concept for the company in the late 90s. What he didn't want to do was replicate what he'd done with Tata Consultancy Services, which was created generic IT services company, what he wanted to create was a company that was dedicated to the manufacturing industry. And he built a proposition that was predicated upon two components. One is real engineering work. So we do real product development work for automotive, aerospace, and industrial heavy machinery companies. And that includes the provision of people all the way through their complete turnkey outsourcing of complete vehicles, and complete products. The flip side of the proposition is that we also help those same manufacturing companies select and deploy the IT tools on which new products are built. So we do a lot of work in and around digital systems, ERP systems, PLM systems. Now the company today is almost 9000 people, 16 different geographic locations, at 27 different nationalities. And although we're very proud of our position inside of the Tata Group, and the Nexus that we have in India, the company is very much a global company. And based here in Detroit, we have a diverse leadership team. And we have a principle whereby over 75% of the people that we have in different countries are made up of individual citizens of those countries.
Jan Griffiths:Oh, that's fascinating. You know, when we first spoke, we talked a little bit about working for an Indian owned company. And at first, I can't imagine, I'm not sure what my expectation would be, I think my expectation would be that it would be a little bit like the old British automotive culture. And I talked to Andy Palmer, the former CEO of Aston Martin, about this, you know, that more aggressive command and control culture? So my first reaction would be that that's what I would think without having any facts or data around me. It's just a feeling that I would I would have, right, and then you and I had that discussion. And nothing could be further from the truth. I was actually dead wrong, right?
Warren Harris:I was not surprised by your impressions of India and Indian business houses, because in many respects, when I went to India for the first time at 2005, I had the same view. I went there originally as part of the team that investigated the opportunity that Mr. Tata had put in front of us, and I was predisposed to push him back. I felt as a public company, we had a fiduciary responsibility to look at the opportunity in the context of the company and the shareholders. But I was very much looking forward to continuing to run the company independently. But when I went to India, I was really taken first and foremost by the people, the work ethic, the commitment to making a difference, the commitment to community and teaming was something that I'd never seen in any other part of the world. And when you combine that, with the culture that sits inside of the target group, it represents a very, very special place the target group is, is over 150 years old. It's two thirds owned by a charitable trust. There are over 100 companies inside of the group. He's one of the companies and each of the employees not only has a responsibility to build in shareholder value, it has a responsibility to give him back to the communities in which we live and work. That sort of stakeholder commitment that is pervasively a part of India is what has informed I think, the success of the group, and that it's what commanded my respect. And it's one that has committed me to invest the best part of my career and being a part of it. And although there are certain comparisons that one can draw between Indian business and what used to be British business in the 70s, and the 80s, you refer to hierarchy. And there is a element of that the way in which India is changing the way in which Indian business community is changing, you know, give me tremendous confidence that not only will will India continue to be relevant today, it will have an increasingly influential role on business and the economic world in the years to come.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, well, I was I was thrilled to hear your experience of the an Indian owned entity and the culture and the investment in the community. And then just recently, I saw your post on LinkedIn, and that is actually manifested itself with the new headquarters in Detroit, right, you want to talk to us a little bit about that.
Warren Harris:It was a really great milestone, when we were able to take our North American headquarters back to the city of Detroit. I referenced before that my journey in this state started in Detroit in 1988. And so to take the business back to where it all started, it was a great privilege for me, and something that was very personal to me. We looked at our options about three years ago. And we are very much part of the evolving mobility industry. And we saw what was going on down in Detroit, we saw the ecosystem that was building in and around the startup community and the venture capital community. And we saw what Ford were doing, we saw what other organizations were doing. And we wanted to be part of that. But we also wanted to be part of the regeneration of the city, we've been invested in various philanthropic activities in and around Detroit for more than 20 years. And so to demonstrate our renewed commitment for those programs, and for what's going on in the city, was also a part of the rationale that informed the decision. And we've been absolutely delighted with the experience that we've had so far, unfortunately, because of COVID. We've not spent a lot of time in our headquarters on Cass Avenue. But for the first year, all of our employees enjoyed the environment, we were able to reach out and make connections in the city, with partners, and with groups that have really enriched the business experience, but also the community experience that we've had as an organization. So it's been a great journey.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah. And as you say, you're right in the middle of all that startup activity. And it's the same building as the new we were.
Warren Harris:It's an old, it's an Alfred car building. And it used to be an old Cadillac dealership, and we've got the penthouse, we work. So got the first five floors.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, I love that. And I liked this idea. You know, you talk about the mobility ecosystem. And a lot of the startup businesses a new technology, are going to come through either planet, and the WeWork kind of structure. And I love this idea that I heard Tony Hsieh, the CEO of Zappos talk about, which is this idea of casual collision, where you put yourself in the space. And it's about those conversations that you have when you're sitting next to somebody in a co working space or at the coffee machine a little bit more difficult now, when COVID but that that might spark something, it might not be an obvious connection. But when we talk about innovation, and I would think that that's very near and dear to your heart, being in a technology business, that you don't know where these ideas are going to come from, and putting yourself in the space. There's a tremendous value to that. So since I've already now taken us down a path of innovation, let's talk a little bit about innovation. What does innovation mean to you? And how do you get it? How do you make it happen in your business?
Warren Harris:The best definition I've I've come across for innovation is fresh ideas that have true economic value. And I think innovation comes from diversity. It comes through and from an environment that encourages different perspectives to be applied to a challenge, or a problem statement, we have as part of our core values, three things which encourage innovation, we have a commitment to teaming with our customers, we have a wanting commitment to working with customers, and through interactions with customers, and really developing insights as to the challenges and the issues that they have. That facilitates a commitment to innovation. We have a commitment to a global mindset I referenced before that we're a global company, we encourage diversity inside of the organization, diversity and thinking, diversity and cultures, diversity in terms of capability. And when you bring diverse backgrounds, diverse experience, into an environment that encourages, again, looking at things in a different way, good things happen. We also have a commitment to what we refer to as a can do attitude. And again, so we're constantly challenging the status quo. And one of the things that we enjoy is not only diversity in terms of culture, and experience, but also diversity in terms of age, and we recruit over 1500 people every year. And most of those people come from universities and colleges. And that affords us an opportunity to look at things in a way that encourages the leveraging of digital tools. The approach is not constrained by conventional thinking. When we look at innovation, we look at it very much holistically and we look at it first and foremost from the perspective of culture. And then we look to ensure that we put teams together that can take advantage of the culture and the environment. And they can generate those fresh ideas that ultimately, we challenge ourselves to deliver either economic value for ourselves or for our clients.
Jan Griffiths:When you talk about encouraging diversity and diverse perspectives, and diversity in the broader sense, as you've talked about, it's important to have a safe environment for people to feel that they can indeed bring that perspective and bring their voice forward. In traditional automotive, we see in a more command and control type leadership model. People don't feel safe, you they fear judgment, they fear that they might have their head taken off, if they fail, we don't have a very good tolerance for failure. But yet, we all know that you have to, in order to get through innovation, you're going to fail, you're going to try and fail and try and fail and try again. So the environment that you have people operating in, they have to feel safe. Whether you're a kid out of college, you have to feel like you can say what you think and not be judged, or be told that you're just a kid and you don't know what you're talking about, all the way up to the person who's perhaps, you know, just months away from retirement, and just wants to make it right they are everybody has a different need of safety along their, their life journey. And as a CEO, you have to put that environment in place in that leadership model in place to make that happen. That is much easier said than done, particularly in Detroit in the heart of automotive. So how do you do that? Can you talk to us a little bit about your style and approach around a safe working?
Warren Harris:It's a great question. And it's something I've really grown to understand the importance of, as I've matured, and taken on more experience, in that as part of my rites of passage within the group. I was fortunate enough to get a Harvard Business School in 2011. And I did the Advanced Management Program 175. execs from different parts of the world for months, case studies every day. And when I went there, I expected to develop a lot more functional experience in specific areas and in finance better, how to how to do operations better, how to make good technology decisions. And yet I learned some of those things. But the majority of the things that we focused on, were the Human Factors issues, the importance of culture, the importance of creating the right environment, the importance of attracting and finding a way of retaining the best and the brightest, and the multiply that that affects in terms of performance of an organization. And so one of the things that we've done in the recent past is we've made a commitment to what we refer to as organizational health. And organizational health really comes out of the teachings of Patrick Patrick Lencioni and the table group and I've been devouring everything that Pat has published since the early 90s. But organizational health, as advocated by Pat includes four things. It includes a commitment to work cohesive leadership team. It drives clarity around six basic questions. Why do we exist? How do we behave? What is it that we do? What constitutes success, what's important right now, and who does what, and then it requires a commitment to over communicating that clarity, and then institutionalizing that clarity in terms of how you hire people, how you drive performance, how you celebrate success. And if I go back to the first component, which is probably the most important, this is this idea of having a cohesive leadership team. And the importance of that, again, cannot be overstated. Because if there's clarity, in terms of what the leadership stands for, if there's clarity in terms of what they stand for, in terms of what the organization is trying to do from a strategy perspective, but just as importantly, how and why they're doing it, that then provides some signals, the safety that you refer to, that an organization and an individual looks to embrace if they're going to perform at the highest level. And the cohesiveness of leadership team is really predicated upon vulnerability based trust, do you have a leadership team that is in a position to be able to hold up their hand and say, I really don't understand this? I'm not very good at this. I need help in this particular area. Can you clarify what this particular thing means to me? And so we, as a leadership team, have spent a lot of time with outside facilitators and amongst ourselves, really challenging ourselves to embrace vulnerability based trust. And the way in which I look to check whether or not we're making progress is somewhat counter intuitively, is our willingness to engage in conflict? Are we willing to get involved in really passionate, unfiltered debate around the issues that matter? And are we weighing in on the things that are important, increasingly look to mind for conflict inside of the organization to ensure that that happens, because my experience is, if people weigh in, then typically, they buy, because obviously, not everybody's going to agree with every decision. But one of the things that I challenge my team to do is either agreeing to commit or disagree and commit on decisions that we make as an organization. And typically I find if there's been debate, if there's been an opportunity to have that passion, exposed in terms of the key issues, then regardless of the decision, people will weigh in. If you get people to weigh in, then you get people to own the decision. You get ownership, that drives accountability, accountability, financial results. So why don't we do that? So the question, but that's how we look to create that safe environment, that environment in which we can encourage people to be the best that they can be.
Jan Griffiths:I think that's a great explanation. And I agree with you, I support the work of Pat Lencioni. He's one of my favorites, and everything that comes out of the table group I enjoy. It resonates with me fully thinking about the C suite, your your leadership team. And my experience has been that occasionally you'll you'll see this kind of behavior where the boss has his favorites, whether he means to or not, there's just people that he he are in his or her inner circle that he's just closer to, right. And then for the other people, they don't want to offend that inner circle, because they know somehow that's going to come back around to hurt them. So you know, it's a gamesmanship. It's the games we play inside the C suite, but they do play out, right? Whether we, we don't like to talk about them too much. But yes, they play out. So you talk about a cohesive team, when you see those games being played out. And I'm sure every once in a while, you know, people, we're all human, somebody will slip back to an old way of doing things are a way they did things in another company. How do you correct or corral that behavior? Because it's so easy to just let it go right? And to just let it play out? And because you're always you're focused about the numbers and the customers and the business. But how do you grab a hold of those behavioral issues at a C suite level and stop that kind of behavior?
Warren Harris:Yeah, it's a great question. And I don't think there's an exact science to how you grapple with these types of issues. But I think there's a couple of things that we've done that I think perhaps, has certainly been helpful for us and perhaps it's helpful for others. You know, I think first and foremost, the role of the leader is to go first when it comes to doing the me a CalPERS and acknowledging, when when you know parochial interests or particular biases or particular conditioning has, has constrained the ability to look at an issue objectively. So being open and transparent, when, when when decisions, or things have happened, that have not ultimately proven to be the best approach that the company or one could have taken to a particular issue. So the willingness again, to be vulnerable and tend to share that. And then the other thing that we encourage as part of this commitment to conflict is peer to peer accountability. I applaud members of the team, when they have the courage to call out that our health as a team is being compromised by individuals, or blind spots that are getting in the way of the best interests of the company, or the clients being paramount. And again, it's not an exact science, we very often get it wrong. when new people come in, there is a tendency for us to have to kind of reestablish a new norm.
Jan Griffiths:Reprogram them, I bet.
Warren Harris:There's always a dynamic that plays out as far as that is concerned, what I always do, I bring in representatives from pets organization, we immerse people as part of the induction in the principles of organizational health, we make sure that we over communicate our commitment to organizational health for new members of the team. And we don't always get it right. But I think certainly we are trending towards progress. And in many respects, I'm pleased with that.
Jan Griffiths:Well, it appears that you support a lot of the principles of authentic leadership. But I'm pretty sure that you weren't always this way. So how, how did your leadership style evolve vver time?
Warren Harris:I think my leadership style has evolved through watching others. And through experience of what's worked and what's not worked, I've had the opportunity to work all over the world, I've had experience in India and China and Japan, the UK, mainland Europe, and certainly in different parts of the US. I've worked and had the privilege of working for and alongside individuals that I regarded as being extremely talented. I've had role models like Mr. Tata that I've been able to look up to. And I've studied that at firsthand how he has managed and led an organization of 650,000 people. And that has provided some great lessons. You know, I think the things that I've kind of concluded through the experiences that I've had, and through the testing of what's worked, and what's not worked is that when it comes to leadership, from my perspective, and this is my humble view, there are two types of leader, there are individuals that aspire towards a particular position, and perceive leadership as a prize in a subject to be worked for, and something to be grasped. And typically, when those individuals succeed, they're looking for that price, they're looking for the return on that success. They've worked hard to achieve it, they expect a return. And so there's always a kind of a battle that goes on between the best interests of the company and the best interests of that individual. I regard and certainly not a group has taught me so much about this, that leadership is a responsibility. It's a service. And it's it's an obligation that one has to the company, and to the individuals that are a part of it. And I think when you look at leadership in that particular way. One, it's very humbling and to interjects a balance to decision making, which I think is healthy. And again, we all have egos and so I don't always get it right. And I don't always manage to subordinate my own interest to that of the company. I think where I have been able to do it. I've been able to position the support of others in a way that's enabled me to be successful, and by association for company to be successful. The older I get, the more experience that I get, the more true that is proven to be.
Jan Griffiths:Do you think that there's a shift taking place? We talk a lot about the transformation of work, I see that companies are starting to understand the value of culture much more than ever before, and that there is a shift to more of a servant leadership type model than perhaps command and control. Do you see that or what are your thoughts on on that?
Warren Harris:I certainly see that the teachings of Pat Lencioni. But also, you know, Jim Collins was was relatively clear about his views of what effective leadership was and it was much more akin to this introverted humility driven service led characteristics. If you go back to the 80s You know, it's certainly of excellence. I think there were, you know, there was The positioning that that was a trait in many of the successful companies. And so I think that the importance of culture, the importance of service based leadership, I think is becoming more and more acknowledged. But I also think that there are examples over history and over time, but of the fact that although we're acknowledging it now, the traits have always been there. And they've typically been more successful than the command and control leadership, perhaps has been given more public exposure in terms of how businesses and governments and institutions are profiled. And I also think that leadership as well is also driven by a circumstance, you know, I always refer to, you know, wartime leadership and peacetime leadership. And in wartime leadership, you don't have the ability to be able to build consensus and focus on culture, typically, there's a burning platform that one has to address and grappled with. And so in that type of situation, that command and control, leadership is much more relevant. I think flexibility, and a willingness to be agile and to adapt to different circumstances is perhaps more important than either leadership style.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, I agree with you, I think you've got to pull out command and control out of your toolbox, when when the situation requires it. But it's when it's the preferred style, that it's the problem. And we see many CEOs today that have grown up with the command and control model, and it has assured this success. So people coming up behind them see that behavior, and model that behavior, because they see that that results in success and progression. On the other side of the spectrum, you're not going to get any Gen Z people to work for you, if you have a command and control model. It's not happening, forget millennials, millennials are already flooding the workplace, we're already up to close to what I think the number is 70%. But Gen Z, Gen Z is a whole new breed again, and they will not tolerate that you are not going to put them in a cube and you are not going to expect them to dedicate their entire lives to work the way that I would guess you and I had to have the early part of our careers. So I think that is changing it too. And I also think that the pandemic is an accelerator to this change, because it's forcing leaders to be more connected at a deeper, more human level with their people than they've ever had to be before.
Warren Harris:I couldn't agree more with that. And if I look back at my own journey, I came through under some fairly strong leaders. And I was certainly guilty of modeling their behavior. When I took on responsibility. That balance between advocacy and inquiry was very much the position towards advocacy. And I've found increasingly that that has not been effective. And I have to challenge myself now because I'm passionate about things I want to share my view I want the company to do well, I want individuals to do well. So I have to hold myself back when it comes to group type situations in order to really ensure that people are given an opportunity to share their perspectives. And it also to look at things in a much more holistic way that perhaps I would have done 1015 years ago. And I think that's a that's a good thing. It's good thing for me. I think it's a good thing for those people that around me.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, we've we've talked a lot about the traits of authentic leadership. So far. I've defined Gravitas in my business as the hallmark of authentic leadership. What is Gravitas to you?
Warren Harris:That's a great question. Yeah, I think if you look at the way in which a dictionary would display Finding Gravitas, its seriousness, it's this solemnity, it's the things that you know, traditionally associated with things that are important. I look at gravitas as being in the context of business as being substance, something that's real, something that's meaningful, I advocate inside of the organization for strategy being the driving force of our organization, and the fact that compelling purpose is the basis on which we build a culture and we build the plan for the organization. To my mind, that's a commitment to gravitas, that's a commitment to the substance. That's a commitment to meaning that hopefully will resonate with all of our stakeholders. And so for me, you know, grab a salad, it's not seriousness, it's not an emulator yet. It's much more about the compelling nature of what we have the opportunity and again, the privilege that leaders have inside of an organization that they can build inside of the teams.
Jan Griffiths:You use the term compelling and that's, that's the term that I like to use around Gravitas because the name of my business is Gravitas Detroit. So I get to interpret any way I want because I can't. So I move away. I move away from the dictionary definition, which is of course, as you stated, it's about solemnity and seriousness and weight, its gravity, its weight. But to me, it's it is that compelling feeling that you get when you're around a person who is a leader. But sometimes you just don't even know what they're doing, or what they're selling or buying or who they are, you just want to be around them. Right? You just want to be on their team, because you feel safe with them. That's trust, they've got your back, they will help you achieve your potential and maybe even more, I mean, it's a feeling to me, I've used it to define the hallmark of authentic leadership. And it exists. I mean, it is it's out there, you know, you are one very clear example of somebody who practices authentic leadership, and has that, that that feeling when somebody's in your presence, you can you can sense it. So I've yeah, I've redefined the term Gravatar. So I'm not sure if Webster's Dictionary wants to contact me to. So I can explain that to them. But I'm happy to do so. I think mine's better, don't you think so? Okay, let's talk a little bit about personal accountability. I've been running accountability labs, I now have well, as of January 4, I have three of them running. And I find the subject Yeah, it's amazing. I find the subject fascinating as to how people stop their day. Because personal accountability, how you talk to yourself in your head, the commitments that you make to yourself, when you say, I'm going to do this? Do you give yourself an excuse? Or do you do it? You know, as human beings, there's all kinds of stuff going on up there in our heads, right? So I'm always interested in how leaders start their day, how they set their day up for success. So what does that look like to you? How do you typically start your day?
Warren Harris:It's changed since COVID. Before COVID, I was typically on the road for two, two and a half weeks, every month, I would typically spend a week in India, that we can Europe, sometimes China, Japan, and then the rest of the time here in the US, when I'm on the road, I would typically start with a run, or we'd get up a couple of hours before the day started and go for a run. And that was my opportunity to kind of collect my thoughts and get ready for the priorities of the day. And that was my opportunity to ensure that the busyness of the day didn't encroach upon what was important. Since COVID, I still get up early earlier than I did previously, because my Zoom calls because of the overlap with India, typically starts at about six o'clock. So I typically get up for 430, I do a little bit of work in the gym, and I do the same thing, I collect my thoughts, make sure that I'm focused upon what I need to get done that day. And then ensure that those different things come in, I'm able to reference back on what it is that I previously decided that I needed to get done. So that's that's how I start my day.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, there's something about taking that time to get your head in the right place to start the day, I think when you just get out of bed, and you just roll right into the day. And then you immediately start with the emails and the distractions, you're toast, you know, you're not going to accomplish what you wanted to accomplish. And that's one of the things that we talk about a lot with the accountability Labs is we talk about, we pick a word to describe our mindset for the day. And then we do you know, we do whatever we can to hold that mindset throughout the day. And it changes because we're human beings, our energy level changes, right from day to day. And it's all it's all okay, cuz this is a group with no, no judgment. It's all transparency, just people trying to get better every single day. But I'm also a runner, not as much as I used to. And I've heard people talk about how wonderful running is and you know, how it has this sort of psychological impact. And, of course, it's a healthy thing to do. And I never would have thought that to be the case. But then I started running about five years ago. And I thought, wow, there's this really something to this, the runner's high, right, it's, it's a real thing.
Warren Harris:It is a real thing. I don't always enjoy getting up early, particularly when I'm tired getting out there and subjected myself to the cold and to the wind, and very often the rain and the snow here in Detroit. What I do value is the fact that I'm disconnected from the world. I'm there on my own. I don't listen to music when I run. It's my opportunity to kind of disaggregate the previous day and get things kind of set up. this balance between urgent and important is something that I spent a fair amount of time reflecting upon. And even if the round physically has not been great, after 2530 minutes, you know, typically, I'll always come back and be much more centered, and much more focused than when I started. And an old friend of mine that encouraged me to start running about 1518 years ago, he said that you'll never regret going for a run. I think, you know, here I am, 1518 years into it. And I don't always look forward to it. I always enjoy getting ready and putting the running shoes on. But I have never come back. And so I wish I hadn't done that.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. Great way to look at it. So tell me, what advice would you give to your 25 year old self today in today's environment?
Warren Harris:What a great question. What a what a super question. Well, if I look back at what I've been involved with, and what I've experienced, it has been just an incredible privilege to have done, what I have, I've had the opportunity to do, again, traveled around the world, exposed that a relatively intimate level to different cultures and have different things happen in different parts of the world. I've worked with some really incredible customers that have enabled and realized breakthrough and great products, I was part of an organization that bought itself from a public company, and we were entrepreneurs in terms of how we got that organization up and running, I experienced that journey. I went through the IPO and the taking of the company public and then selling the company I've bought and sold organizations. It's been a absolute privilege. And I'm extremely grateful for the people and the circumstances that have enabled that. But the ones that I think that I would remind my 25 year old self of is the importance of being present throughout all of those things. I'm very goal oriented, and very much focused upon targets and achievement. And very often as you're going through the journey, those focus on those goals, and those objectives can distract you from the experience itself. And you don't always value, the experiences and the interactions and the people and the opportunities that you're given. And so I think if I was to offer up advice and counsel to my 25 year old it would be to enjoy the journey, and to do all of the things that I've had the opportunity to do, but to ensure that I'm present at all times, and I'm able to fully appreciate what it is that life has given me.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, I think that's, that's great advice to 25 year olds that are perhaps listening to the podcast. And it made me think of an example that I saw play out in my life to different families that I know, one took an assignment in Germany, and fully embraced it, you know, really enjoyed the culture learned as much of the language as they possibly could, truly embraced it right and found the experience, enriching and loved it, and came back, you know, more fulfilled, right. And then another family that I knew many years ago, they went to, to the UK, and they came back, bitching and moaning and complaining about, you know, life in the UK, and how people just park different ways on the street and the food and, and I thought, wow, you know, that's interesting, right? Because just two American families who grew up in the exact same culture, right, almost the same place. And one really embraced the experience and got a lot out of it. And the other just would not, as you say, would not be present, and embrace the experience. And you that's so important. Again, it goes back to mindset, right, it's putting your head in the right place.
Warren Harris:It really does. And the importance of practicing positivity, you know, one can certainly look at the an experience and an opportunity with a rose tinted perspective, or you can look at it from the perspective of a glass being half empty. And I think mindset is incredibly important, you know, life in many respects, and it's somewhat of a cliche, but life is what you make it and accepting that challenge, I think is important for us all.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah, we'll talk about mindset being important. Never before has it been so important that when you're dealing with a pandemic, so in your business, you know, I've talked to many A senior level leaders over the last couple of months. And I've asked them all the same question. And that is, what did you learn about your business in the pandemic? That was something that improved efficiency, or was just a really great thing that happened, whether it was a cultural issue, behavioral issue, something that you've learned that you want to retain in your culture? Is there something that stands out?
Warren Harris:Yeah, we've learned a great deal in the last 9-10 months. And there's a lot that as things hopefully improve, we'll be looking to retain and protect. We're a virtual company, we work with our customers all over the world. And then we tap into global teams, that we position as part of a value chain to deliver services and capability and technologies back to our customers. So working and operating virtually, is something that we've been set up to do since the outset, the ability to be able to work across that time zones, the ability to be able to work from anywhere and still be productive is something that we've built our organization around. But I think one of the things that we've really, really crystallized an understanding of is a go back to organizational health discussion that we had alignment, I think inside of any organization is so important, a real understanding of what the company is set up to do, what the company's purpose is, what's the company's strategic intent, what's the difference that matters, that's typically understood by the leadership team. But it's not always understood, as that's cascaded down into the different functional groups and geographies, the virtual environment that we've created inside of our organization since the pandemic, this allowed us to connect with people in different parts of the world, in a formal and an informal way, and have the conversations around why what it is that we are doing, makes a difference not only to the company, and to our customers, but to them. And I think before, you know, typically when I would interact with teams, it would be when I would travel to a particular location and when we would do town halls, and it would tend to be one to many type conversations. And I think the environment over the last nine to 10 months has allowed us to be a little bit more intimate, again, somewhat counter intuitively than we were previously. And that's something that we want to protect, that's something that we want to work to build on. Also, the other things that we've learned the lack of importance that we need to position on physical assets, and particularly, offices and locations, travel, is something that I think that will have a different lens through which we'll look at that in the future, you reference India's bureaucracy. And I always say that the Brits invented bureaucracy, and the Indians perfected it. And the Tata group took it to the next level, because we're very committed to corporate governance and doing things right as it pertains to the board meetings and the board meetings. We're always in Mumbai, and always very formal, and always very structured. And what we've been able to prove in the last nine to 10 months, is that Zoom based board meetings and much more regular and frequent interactions between myself and the board members, has been far more effective in terms of helping us deal with the challenges that the company has faced. And certainly, that is something that we'll look to protect.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah. And it's I like the informal nature to have the communication, right. There's nothing like seeing somebody in their home office with a T shirt on with a dog running into the room, or the cat jumping on the keyboard or the kid screaming, you know, it just makes it all more human that the pomp and circumstance is gone.
Warren Harris:So what could be more authentic than that?
Jan Griffiths:I know. I know. I love it. I love it. Did you see that skit on BBC, on TV when the guy was giving an interview, and the kid came in behind him and the wife, the wife is trying to pull the screaming kid away. And it's always live on BBC TV.
Warren Harris:Yeah, I did see that. That was fantastic.
Jan Griffiths:I love it.
Warren Harris:It's fantastic.
Jan Griffiths:But we're able to drop that corporate mask, which I talk a lot about, you know, we assimilate into what we think we should be given a corporate culture.
Warren Harris:We've got again, there's a perception that people when they come to work, they are somewhat different than they are at home. And I've had meetings in the last week with our CFO that has a three year old son sitting on her lap, and the CHRO who is constantly getting interrupted by the calls from his in laws, who are keen to have dinner. And when you see people in that light, this commitment that we have to vulnerability based trust. is an approach that is predicated upon personal connections, it helps that. And so, you know, certainly from my perspective, seeing people in that light has certainly enabled the progress as far as our culture that previously, it would have been difficult to have achieved.
Jan Griffiths:Yeah. And when you talk about authentic leadership, you really are showing up as your true authentic self.
Warren Harris:We don't have too much choice anymore.
Jan Griffiths:We don't. But people still struggle with it, though. Even Even I look at my career. And the last few years at my corporate job, I don't know that I would have rolled onto a zoom call without the hair being done and the makeup being done and looking a certain way, what the way that I thought a senior level procurement person should look, you know, I had this idea in my head and I, and I don't know that I would have done it, you know, now here I am, I roll on in front of the camera at 6:30 in the morning for this accountability lab. It's seriously the first time I have seen my reflection, I haven't even looked in the mirror. And then I look and then I sort of, you know, yank it up my hair as I see it on the screen. But being that comfortable in your own skin, I never thought I would get you a quite frankly.
Warren Harris:Well, good for you. Yeah, no, I think it's a great thing. It took, I think we've all learned a great deal about that. And I think our relationships have improved as a result of it. You know, rather than playing the role, we're playing ourselves again. And I think that's healthy.
Jan Griffiths:Yes. Well said, Oh, that's a quote I will use. That's very true. So tell me, what is your legacy?
Warren Harris:Well, hopefully, I'm still building it, I don't think I'm in a position to categorically confirm what it will be. I'd like to think that when the journey is somewhat over, that I'll be able to reflect upon the opportunity that I've had to build organizations that matter, the opportunity that I've had to prioritize an organization's compelling purpose, and before the interests of people, ethnic groups, experience, the company that we've tried to build inside of Tata technologies is agnostic, to race and again, to experience it's driven by ideas, it's driven by the ability to drive impact and make a contribution. And I'd like to think that I'd be recognized and acknowledged for the role that I played in enabling that. Yeah, I also think, and I don't want to become political. But I think if we look at the last four to five years, the world has become somewhat parochial. And there are barriers that have been positioned between countries. And I think I've always been involved in companies that have embraced inclusivity and brought the world together. And in a very small way, I think that's the force for good. I'm very proud of the fact that I've been part of global organizations that have really been able to demonstrate and provide an example of what can be achieved when people from different parts of the planet come together and unify their commitment towards a common purpose.
Jan Griffiths:Well said, well said. Well, thank you very much for your time today and for giving us a peek inside the mind of Warren Harris and your leadership style and also inside the Indian business culture. It's been fascinating. So thank you.
Warren Harris:Thank you, Jan. It's been a great privilege and thank you for the opportunity. It's been great to talk to you.
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