DE&I Transformation: Insights from a CEO's Remarkable Rise

[Transcript]

Jan Griffiths: 00:08

Welcome to the Automotive Leaders Podcast, where we help you prepare for the future by sharing stories, insights, and skills from leading voices in the automotive world with a mission to transform this industry together. I'm your host, Jan Griffiths, that passionate, rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, with over 35 years of experience in our beloved auto industry, and a commitment to empowering fellow leaders to be their best authentic selves. Stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas the hallmark of authentic leadership. Let's dive in.

Jan Griffiths: 00:57

Today, we're going to cover a topic that we're way overdue talking about on this podcast, and that is the subject of D, E, and I — diversity, equity, and inclusion — and I could think of no one better to engage in that conversation than the woman who is leading the charge for D, E, and I in the auto industry. It is, of course, Cheryl Thompson, the founder and CEO for CADIA, the Center for Automotive Diversity, Inclusion and Advancement. CADIA was founded on the belief that the auto industry has never reached its potential in innovation and creating value because of its lack of D, E, and I. And I think she's absolutely right on. In our conversation, we'll be talking about getting inside the minds of those C-suite executives, the pushback, and also some of the bright spots in the industry. We'll get into a deeper explanation of what D, E, and I actually is, and how you can get started on your D, E, and I journey. All of this will be peppered with some of our own personal stories. And I warn you, some of this content might shock you. Let's dive in. Cheryl Thompson, welcome to the show.

Cheryl Thompson: 02:17

Thank you, Jan, it is great to be here. I'm such a fan. So this is a dream come true.

Jan Griffiths: 02:22

Thank you. Thank you. Well, likewise, likewise. I absolutely love the work that you are doing in our beloved automotive industry. We both care passionately about where this industry is going. And we want to prepare it for the future. We both have very similar missions. So, it's great to have you on the show today. But I'd like to start with your backstory. Now. I've heard you tell your story a couple of times. But recap for our audience. Is it true that you started in the cafeteria at Ford Motor Company? Is that right?

Cheryl Thompson: 03:03

That is right. Actually, I started in the basement of World Headquarters washing dishes. That was my very first job. I had plans to go to college and do something with computers. So it was in the 80s. And computers were just coming into play. And I was really excited to do something with computers. And I ended up getting pregnant when I was 17. So, those plans to go to college had to be put to the side. And I was waitressing at Big Boy, do you remember Big Boy restaurant?

Jan Griffiths: 03:33

Oh, yes!

Cheryl Thompson: 03:35

So, I was a waitress at Big Boy. So, that was great tip money and I was able to support my son. And my dad, who was an engineer at Ford Motor Company said, "You know, Cheryl, if you're going to waitress, why don't you try to apply at Ford?" And I thought they're never going to hire me. And my mom dropped me off in the front of World Headquarters to go apply. And they hired me on the spot handed me an apron and said, "Can you start right now?" So, in the basement of World Headquarters wearing my heels, my gray suit, pantyhose because it's the 80s. And do you remember the Lucille Ball episode with the chocolate coming down the conveyor belt?

Jan Griffiths: 04:11

Yeah, yeah, I do.

Cheryl Thompson: 04:12

So, trays of dirty dishes are coming down the conveyor belt and it was really difficult to keep up. It was you know, my first experience of kind of like a production line. All these dishes coming down. So, did that, I did get to work in the cafeteria, the coffee shop, executive dining room, penthouse. And I've really got to see early examples of good leadership and bad leadership based on the way I was treated as a waitress.

Jan Griffiths: 04:40

That's so true, right? Yes.

Cheryl Thompson: 04:43

So, I'll never forget waiting on Jesse Jackson. He was in for a party that was being hosted in the executive dining room. And just the way he treated me and he asked my name and he looked at me, you know, eye contact versus the leaders that were stepping over others trying to get ahead, right? And the way I was treated reflected that, so very early lesson for me in leadership. And then they were trying to recruit women and minorities into the skilled trades I thought electrician, pipe fitter; I'm all in for that. And they wanted to put me in Tool and Die. And I didn't know what it was at the time. I told my dad, I was gonna make dye, make tools, and dye them. And he said, "No, that's not what Tool and Die is about." And I loved my apprenticeship. It was a four-year program. And it was such a great foundation for engineering. And that's how I got my start into engineering

Jan Griffiths: 05:37

Wow, Tool and Die, too. I mean, it can't have been many women in Tool and Die back then, right, in the 80s.

Cheryl Thompson: 05:43

Not very many at all. Oftentimes, I was the only one. There were five other women going through the program, not everybody made it. And I was lucky enough to have a female role model who was about 15 years my senior, who really showed me the ropes, really taught me how to show up, how to show up so people would want to help me and not push people away. I really think of her fondly; her name was Pam.

Jan Griffiths: 06:10

Yes. Now that marked the beginning of an incredibly successful career in automotive. So, what happened after that, Cheryl?

Cheryl Thompson: 06:20

Well, after that, after being an engineer for a little bit, I eventually became a supervisor. That was my first experience leading people. So, I was working on the vehicle side of Ford Motor Company. I got to work in the Wixom Assembly Plant making the Towncar Continental and the Mark V111, which was amazing. Anyone who, I love production, I love watching things come together. Got to spend some time in stamping plants, which I could sit and watch a progressive line, stamping line, you know, for hours and hours, just watching all of that automation. And then I went over to the powertrain side and got to work with gears. So, I got to learn all about all those gears that go into transmissions. I got stuck at the supervisory level for about 10 years. And I was talking to my manager and was one of those career discussions and he said, "Cheryl, you're ready for leadership. You're ready for more. We need to start thinking about putting you into a management position." And I looked at him and I said, "I don't want to have to act like you. I didn't see any female role models." And I thought, you know, back in those days, the culture was a little bit more toxic than it is today. And I thought I was going to have to turn myself into someone I wasn't, and I did not want to do that. And I said, "I don't have anyone to look up to. And I don't want to have to act like you." And he was so genuine and looked at me. He was wearing glasses, and he looked over his glasses at me and he says, "Kid, I don't know what you're talking about. But I'll try to get you some help." He introduced me to the highest female-ranking executive Linda was her name. And I'm standing outside of Linda's office waiting to talk to her. And she was saying we need to get these engineers home from lunch. They've been away from their families for six months. And it was in that moment that I said, "Oh my gosh, that's how I would lead." My discussion with her and mentoring discussions after that really changed my professional life, but also my personal life.

Jan Griffiths: 08:24

Wow, that's incredible.

Cheryl Thompson: 08:26

After that, I went into you know, my last position at Ford Motor Company was leading all of powertrain prototype. I had a team of about 500 people, which was amazing. But I've just had this invisible force pulling me out to do something different. I kind of fell into manufacturing, I had that experience of knowing I had more to give. And I felt like I wasn't being utilized as much as I could be. And I remember having a discussion with a black gentleman that was working for me. And he was sharing with me that feeling of not being valued, not being appreciated, not being listened to, not being heard. And I thought wow, I thought that was just women. And I realized there were so many more people that were having a similar experience. And I thought, wow, what if we could unleash that power of everyone? What could we achieve in automotive? So, that is, you know, that invisible force pulling me out to do that work I do today in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the industry.

Jan Griffiths: 09:29

You know, that force you talk about? I know exactly what you're talking about. I feel that pulling me as well, and that's one of the reasons why I left my corporate role. There's something bigger that's pulling me, and for me, it's culture transformation in the industry, but it's so strong.

Cheryl Thompson: 09:49

It is.

Jan Griffiths: 09:49

And when we talk about visions and company visions when you've got something pulling you, right? That you're going towards, and you can really feel that force, and it's almost palpable that is incredibly powerful.

Cheryl Thompson: 10:04

It is. I'm getting chills when you're talking about it. And I remember picking up the phone before I even knew what I was doing putting in my retirement paperwork, right? It's just.

Jan Griffiths: 10:15

Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl Thompson: 10:16

It's like, wow, what am I doing?

Jan Griffiths: 10:21

But then you jumped out into American Axle for a little bit

Cheryl Thompson: 10:24

I did, I did. You know, I starting your own business, as you know, is not an easy thing. If you want any personal development, entrepreneurship is the way you're going to really get that personal development. And they were looking for someone to lead their prototype organization. And I, they reached out to me on LinkedIn. And you know, quite honestly, I thought that the reputation of the company was a little bit machismo and very driven and type-A. And I was hesitant, and I went on the interview anyways, and I really hit it off with the person that hired me. We really had a good relationship. And I really loved my time in American Axle. Getting to see another side of the industry was so valuable. I was in that Ford bubble for 31 years. Being on the supplier side was a humbling experience. Number one. And I have total respect for the engineering competency and just the things that Tier One suppliers, the things that they're faced with, the challenges that they endure, and they're still standing, most of them, right?

Jan Griffiths: 11:35

I agree. To really understand this industry, you have to have done some time, literally done your time in the Tier One supply base. Because that you are in a bubble and an OEM and because of the power dynamic, you have a very slanted view and perspective of the entire industry. So, I think that the fact that you actually spend time in American Axle and the way that you describe the reputation of American Axle; you're being so diplomatic, and so professional, and so nice, I'm just gonna say I would have thought American Axle would be an absolute hellhole to work in. It embodies all the things that I rail against in command-and-control. However, everything I have heard lately about American Axle is completely the other direction. And what I hear in my network tells me that one of the beacons, if you will, of leadership right now, or tenets of leadership in American Axle is all about D, E and I.

Cheryl Thompson: 12:38

Yes, I am.

Jan Griffiths: 12:40

So, I don't know what you did or what. How you impacted American Axle?

Cheryl Thompson: 12:45

Well, I can't take credit for it. They had to look inside. You know, it was shortly after George Floyd was murdered, that they really got serious about their journey. And its typical American Axle style went all in. Right. And they have done a phenomenal job. They've made a lot of progress and they're still going. So, yeah, very proud of their progress.

Jan Griffiths: 13:08

Well, I feel like I have to say this: If American Axle can do it people, you can too.

Cheryl Thompson: 13:14

Amen.

Jan Griffiths: 13:16

Let's go back to basic, shall we? D, E, and I is one of those terms where everybody thinks that they understand it, including me. Thinks that they have a pretty good idea of what it is. But they don't, they're not 100% sure. But they don't want to raise their hand and say, "Well, but I don't, I don't really know." So, let me be that person. I don't really, really know, Cheryl. I think I know. But I would love it if you could just get us all grounded on the essence of D, E, and I.

Cheryl Thompson: 13:52

Yes, yes. I think, first of all, this has to be defined organization by organization. If the work is going to be done in an authentic way, a company first has to decide, "What does diversity mean to us?" For some companies, it is race, ethnicity, and gender, and that's it. However, I have found having a wider circle defining diversity gets so many more people on board, and there's so many invisible diversity dimensions that we don't even think about. So, diversity is all of the things that make us different: race, gender, ethnicity, but also things like religion, spirituality, family status, parental status, disability status, LGBTQ, right on and on and on, thinking about neurodivergent. In our industry, we have a lot of engineers and scientists, and there's a lot of neurodivergence in our industry. Those are some invisible things. So, diversity is everything that makes us different. And then inclusion is really valuing, listening to, respecting, and leveraging all of that beautiful diversity to contribute to the success of the organization. There's the Gallup survey that is done every couple of years about how engaged our employees, and it's something like 34% of employees are actually engaged; 16% are actively disengaged. Inclusion is really how do we engage everyone so that they can bring their full potential to the table. And then equity, this is the term that, I think, causes the most angst. And when I first got into the work, I didn't really understand the difference between equity and equality. Equality is everyone has equal opportunity, everyone is equal, everyone gets the same. And that would be great to achieve equality. I don't know if we'll do that in my lifetime. Equity is the tool that helps us get there. So, equity is all about giving people what they need, personally, so that they can thrive. So, it could mean a flexible working arrangement for someone who is caregiving for others. It could mean special mentorship, it could mean a different educational path, a different career path. Equity is giving people what they need to succeed. I have been working with the National Defense Industrial Association, and we were doing some training courses for them. And there was a retired general who showed up every time to these sessions. And I have this quote that I have to share with you, because I think it is the perfect way to describe Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. He said, "DEI is an HR job. It is the job of leaders, it is what we are paid to do. DEI is knowing and understanding how to maximize the capability of all of the resources at your disposal, the most important of which is the people under your care. Every time we have a conversation about diversity, the conversation ought to be turned to the opportunity for the organization. You have untapped resources that you are now deliberately working to put to good use. DEI is leadership." So, that's retired General Donald Shank. And I just love that description.

Jan Griffiths: 17:27

I love it, and I couldn't agree more. It is leadership. You cited the Gallup numbers. When we talk about a high-performance team, the number one trait of a high performance team as defined by Google in Project Aristotle 2012. It's going back aways now, but it still holds true. And that is psychological safety. First of all, I hear you define for your team what diversity is, right? But then this inclusion piece, you've got to provide an environment for those voices to come forward. And that's the leadership pot. And that's tricky, right?

Cheryl Thompson: 18:05

Yes, yes. Yeah. I love that Google Aristotle study; we use that a lot in our training. And when we talk about psychological safety, there has to be that balance of accountability. And I know you are huge on accountability; you have your accountability lab. And so, you need that balance. I talked to someone who left to Google and they were sharing that, you know, it got a little bit too comfortable. There wasn't an enough accountability. So there has to be that balance of accountability. When you've got high accountability, and low psychological safety, you know, that is the worst because you've got that fear zone or anxiety zone. But when you can have that high psychological safety and high accountability, that's the learning zone where we want to be. And we often do a poll in our training. And even though people are working for the same leader, we see people are having different experiences. Because we were just not all having that same experience at work. Some people feel that higher level of psychological safety than others. And usually, it's people who are on the margins are underrepresented, who feel that lower sense of psychological safety.

Jan Griffiths: 19:19

I'm gonna give you an example. And this has stayed with me, I must have given this presentation five years ago. And it was Flagstar Bank. And it was a women's group. And we were talking about psychological safety. And we were talking about diversity in action. And this woman stood up and she says, "I want to call out," and she calls the guy, I don't remember his name. He was a Senior Level VP in the bank, right? And she called him out, and he was in the room, right? And she pointed to him in the room, and I'm like, "Oh my God, she's gonna say," and she says, "I want to tell you something. I will tell you an example, of the diversity in action. This is, this is what this guy did," she said, I walked into a meeting, typical meeting, the senior level males are around the table, with them physically sitting at the table. And then the people that are not ranked as high, it's typically the women that don't feel that they have the voice, sitting in that circle around the inner circle. And she walked in or even worse, standing at the bottom, but at the back of the room. So she walked into the room, he gets up and motions to her to take his seat, and he physically removes himself to the outer circle. Wow, Cheryl. Now that's powerful, right?

Cheryl Thompson: 20:44

That is. Oh my goodness. I had a similar experience. I was taking a tour of Ford Blue, the marketing firm that supported Ford, and the leader of this organization was giving us a tour showing us around and there was a staff meeting that was going on at the time, and he said, "Yes, I'm supposed to be in there. But I'm gonna skip it today." And his chair was empty, sitting at the head of the table. And there was a woman who was kind of running late. And he said, "Oh, take my seat." She took that seat and pulled it away from the table, put it up against the wall, and sat down. And it was like, no, we're so conditioned as women.

Jan Griffiths: 21:25

Yeah, you're right. We are totally conditioned. And I remember the early days of my career, when just being the girl in the room, regardless of title, or experience, or knowledge, you were the one that had to make the coffee, copy the blueprints and take the meeting notes. It was normal for somebody, for a guy to look at you and say, "Yeah, I love, I love two sugars and cream with that." And you wouldn't even flinch. You just get up and do it. I mean, could you imagine that happening today? That would never happen today. So, we have made some progress, I guess.

Cheryl Thompson: 21:58

We have absolutely made some progress. I am definitely seeing rays of hope for sure.

Jan Griffiths: 22:05

What are some of the biggest push backs that you get? I mean, you and I are both very familiar with command-and-control leadership in the automotive industry. And these are guys, they are successful because they have emulated that command-and-control leadership model. And it has assured their success. That's how they got to the role that they're in today. And for them to see and truly embrace this need for change is hard. Because in their head, they're going, "Well look, I followed this leadership model, and I got to be the CEO. So I don't know what you people are talking about." And I applaud those CEOs who are embracing a different mindset, a different leadership model and embracing D, E and I. But what's some of the biggest sticking points that you find out there from these types of leaders?

Cheryl Thompson: 22:54

DEI right now is a really tricky topic. The political environment that we're in right now, there's a lot of pushback, you look at the Supreme Court decisions that have been made on affirmative action and the case with the web designer not supporting a same sex-marriage. So it's an interesting time in D, E and I. And the biggest pushback that I see right now is people who feel like, "What about me? I matter too," or people who, on the surface, don't look like they're diverse. But under the surface, there are those invisible diversity dimensions, and so they feel like they've been overlooked for their whole career. And here, they're being overlooked again. So, I see a lot of that. I also see DEI not being done in the most effective way. And people have who have had exposure to the blaming and shaming and some of the ineffective ways just to have a bad taste in their mouth because of it. And sometimes people are a little overzealous in this work, and they make other people afraid to make a mistake. So, when we think about microaggressions, you know, microaggressions are making someone unintentionally feel less than, and there are a lot of people that are afraid to even compliment someone because they're afraid it may be considered a microaggression. So it's just a really tricky time right now in this area. But I think that the biggest pushback is people who have felt slighted or some disadvantage over their career, and they're thinking, wow, you know, when will it ever be my turn?

Jan Griffiths: 24:46

Wow, that's interesting. Now, I'd like to go a little deeper on something you said, you said, "D, E and I being effective," you know, an effective approach or effective strategy. Can you go a little deeper on that? What is an effective D, E, and I strategy?

Cheryl Thompson: 25:04

Well, I think when a company is first starting off, it is a lot of learning and awareness. It is self reflection, it is kind of looking in the mirror and looking at, you know, how you got to where you're at, who helped you along the way. And looking at others who maybe don't share the advantages that you have, the network that you have, the power that you have, and saying, "Well, what about them? How are they going to advance in the organization?" So I think in the beginning, it's a lot of that reflection, self reflection, organizational reflection, conversations about equity and inclusion. It's funny, when I first started this work, I did a lot of training, I had a lot of PowerPoint slides. And it was a lot of me talking, talking, talking. And I have found to really be effective, we have to engage people in these conversations and have them share a little bit of their diversity story. What has gotten in the way of their advancement? Share a time when you were rudely interrupted in a meeting, or overlooked or ignored, or maybe have them share a time when they realized that they were the perpetrator of a microaggression or making somebody feel less than. It's really then that we can start to do the work of the systems that need to change. Eventually, we want to get to the systemic changes that need to happen. These systems that we're working inside of right now were built 50, 60, 70 years ago by white men for white men. And let's face it, the demographics are changing rapidly. And so we have to think about new structures for how we manage talent, how we attract talent, how we source talent, how we assess performance, and how we set people up for advancement. So really looking deep into succession planning, and maybe putting some things into your systems to support that. So I'll give you an example. When we think about diverse candidate slates, an organization can put that policy into place. But the first time that there is a risk or there is a need for speed to fill that role, if a policy is not in place that says you must do this, they're going to bypass it. But having a system in place that makes you go to a high level, maybe executive VP for a deviation, it's going to make you try harder to find that diverse slate of candidates. The early part is the learning and awareness, then you move to having these discussions. And then it's what are the systems that need to be changed so that everyone can have an opportunity to thrive and succeed?

Jan Griffiths: 28:08

Yeah, and I totally agree with you. And it's the idea of building the pipeline, right? Starting the pipeline early. I love it when you say to somebody, say to a senior level person, well, you know, "Why didn't you fill that with a diverse candidate? And they're like, "Well, I did, but none applied." Aha. And that's their, like, Get Out of Jail Free card, right? They say, "Well, we did we opened it up, but we couldn't find anybody qualified. They didn't, they just didn't have the qualifications that we needed." Wrong question, wrong answer. The question is, what are you doing to fill the pipeline so that when this opportunity arises, you have diversity already baked into your pipeline, right from day one? You know, why aren't you out at schools, colleges? As you know, I'm on the advisory board for Wayne State for Supply Chain Management. So much talent, so much diverse talent. Why aren't you people tapping into that, like now? Not when you need to fill the position, and then you're all frantic? Because you know in supply chain, right? You're all frantic. Oh my gosh, I gotta have a commodity manager for this commodity. They must have had experience buying this particular narrow, tiny little commodity. Oh my gosh, if we keep thinking like that, we're never gonna get out of this.

Cheryl Thompson: 29:25

You're absolutely right. That pipeline is so so important. We do a little work with Wayne State as well and such talent inside of Wayne State. I spoke not too long ago for a Society of Women Engineers, an audience of 750 female engineers do not tell me there is no pipeline out there. There absolutely is. But it is, it is difficult sometimes and it takes effort to go find those people and to convince them sometimes. Just go back to the story I was telling you about my first management position where I said, you know, I don't think this is for me. I didn't think I was ready. Let me tell you when I got into that room, Jan, and I sat around with the other leaders, I was like, really? Like, I thought y'all had it all figured out. Yeah. They didn't, they didn't. And so we sell ourselves short. But if that manager didn't push me and challenge me and say, "I do think you're ready, and I'm going to get you that help," I wouldn't be where I'm sitting today. So, it does take effort and going that extra mile. And like you said, building those relationships with all of these sources of talent, so that when you do have a position open, you can bring them in, and then keep an eye on them and keep developing them so that when there is a leadership position open, they are ready.

Jan Griffiths: 30:58

Yeah, ready to rock and roll? Tell me more about CADIA. I was honored to be on the guest list for your very first event. And that was several years ago. But tell us a little bit about what CADIA does, and your goals and objectives, and your mission?

Cheryl Thompson: 31:17

Yes. So CADIA stands for Center for Automotive Diversity, Inclusion and Advancement. And if you Google CADIA, you may find it's also an underground gold mine in Australia. So, I just love that because I think there's a goldmine for individuals coming into this industry. Because it's very lucrative and interesting. But there's a goldmine for companies and organizations, when they can diversify their talent base. Our mission is to double the number of diverse leaders in the industry by 2030. We have a four C-model, I love frameworks. So the first C is Leadership Commitment. And we love to support leaders in their commitment to D, E, and I. I love it when I can get inside of a C-suite and talk to the CEO and that entire leadership team, because that is really where it needs to start. So leadership commitment is one. Systemic change, which I was talking about earlier, that really has to happen for this to be sustainable. Inclusive cultures, as you know, we can do all of the recruiting that we want and hiring of diverse talent. But if the culture is not inclusive, they're not going to stay. We're a membership organization. We have monthly roundtables to support DEI practitioners, whoever's leading DEI within the company, so that we can share best practices and lessons learned. And sometimes just hold space. Because this work can sometimes be very taxing and emotionally draining. So sometimes we're holding space to listen to people and find out how we can support them. As you know, we have something called CADIA Connects, you are one of our very, very first guests when we started CADIA Connects. We were doing that weekly at the time, that was great when the pandemic started. And every Tuesday at noon, we were having these community calls, and now they're monthly, but they're open to anyone in there free. We often encourage people within that are our members to share those recordings, those sessions with everyone inside the company, because they're little DEI topics that we're talking about, you know, things like neuro diversity, LGBTQ pronouns, gender identity, gender expression, inclusive benefits. And so we were really big on education. And helping people put together a strategy so that they can start DEI, and they can really sustain it and make it hit all areas of the company. It's not just about talent, it is about product development, and innovation. It's about marketing and communications. It's about customer service. It hits every area of a company's business.

Jan Griffiths: 34:12

And I think there's a lot of leaders out there who know that, and they know it's the right thing to do. But they have a hard time drawing the line to the numbers to, how is this going to impact the bottom line of my business? Because that's a typical automotive approach. How do you respond to that Cheryl? You must be hit up with that question a million times.

Cheryl Thompson: 34:36

You know, I hear it sometimes and there's all kinds of data out there. Deloitte has a lot of data. PWC, BC - Boston Consulting Group, a lot of data out there talking about how companies are more profitable, more innovative, more creative, and they put numbers to it. When they have more diversity on the leadership team at both in gender, ethnicity and race. So that's one side of it. But the other side of it is, I truly go back to that engagement piece really having everybody all in. And when we can really think about creating cultures that are inclusive, and where people feel like they belong, it's one of those intangible benefits, often, it's something you really can't measure, but it is the right thing to do. And if you want the most effective, productive, high performing team, it's really something that you want to take a look at. And if you make those small, little moves about being more inclusive, getting to know each of your team members, what motivates them, what is going to help them show up at their best, you will start to see those benefits yourself, just with those small little inclusive behaviors, looking at yourself and saying, "Boy, you know, what's activating or triggering me here? And what can I learn from that?" So doing a little self reflection as well.

Jan Griffiths: 36:07

As I look back on my corporate career in my last role. So corporate VP of Supply Chain for a Tier One, we had a global leadership team within supply chain, and we would have to off site leadership meetings a year. And honestly, Cheryl, that was probably the time that I enjoyed the most, preparing for those meetings and having those meetings, you talk about creating space, providing that holding space for people that was the space and to look around the room and see the diversity. Because you, I mean, you had people come in from different countries, but you had all kinds of diversity in that, right? You had age, you had a gender, you had an ethnicity, all facets of diversity, were in that room. And sometimes there were beliefs that people had, you know, you tell stories in your head about somebody "Oh, but that's because they're from Country X, you know, or that's because yeah, they just do it a different way." But all of these things form this wonderful fabric of culture. And we have to learn to pull these gold threads through this fabric because they're there. Yeah, so having these people in the room is one thing, because that's the fabric but pulling that gold thread through. And once you can do that as a leader, and then you see people connecting, and taking time to understand each other's positions, and working towards a solution and getting excited about a vision and a mission. And they're all in. Oh, oh.

Cheryl Thompson: 37:43

That's it!

Jan Griffiths: 37:44

That's what makes me happy.

Cheryl Thompson: 37:46

Yes, me too. Me too. I love that. I love that. It is very, very powerful when you can be in an environment like that. And you can see that kind of, I see it as energy, that energy flow. Yes.

Jan Griffiths: 38:01

And imagine what that would do to a company's bottom line. Imagine what that would do to innovation. If every person in that room felt that they could have their voice heard, put their ideas forward, and know that you are not going to look at them and say, "Oh, well, that's stupid." Or you know, "You're an idiot." Or, "We tried that before and it didn't work, so why don't you just shut up? or, you know, "Here you go again, you keep trying these things, and they keep failing. And so, now we're gonna fire you." If we think like that, we're never gonna get innovation. We have to create this safe space for voices to come forward, or we're not going to get the innovation that quite frankly, our industry demands. Our industry is moving so fast. We're all about the product. We're all about ICE to BEV. EV, look at my latest EV offering. We're very quick to trot out what we're doing in the EV space, but not so quick to talk about what we're doing on the people side. And I'll quote Stephen Covey, who said, "You cannot win in the marketplace without also winning in the workplace." And I think we got to speed it up, don't you, Cheryl?

Cheryl Thompson: 39:16

I do. I do. Absolutely. I don't know why it's so difficult to talk about the people thing and to focus on the people thing over technology. People are our biggest assets. And that's how we get the work done. So I absolutely agree. We need to focus on the people thing. When I talk to people who are considering leaving a company or have left a company, it always comes down to I had more to offer, and they were not challenging me or taking advantage of what I had to offer. Or you know, I just heard a story not too long ago about a production worker coming forward with a big cost savings, right? Who's closer to the product than the production worker? And this person came up with a big cost savings idea and he was ignored, and this guy left the company. People matter.

Jan Griffiths: 40:11

Yeah, there it is, people matter. Now, if a company is out there Cheryl, and they're listening to this, and they're thinking, I really need to get on this, I really need to understand more about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. How would you recommend? How should they get started?

Cheryl Thompson: 40:30

Well, there are so many great resources out there, a lot of podcasts out there. I would recommend doing some self-learning at first, self-reflection, getting to understand a little bit about what this is all about because it does seem intimidating and a little scary. And then reaching out to an organization like ours, where you can be in community with others that are doing the work, and hear some of the lessons learned that companies have, have captured through their journey. So you know, we have our monthly roundtable, we also have our monthly CADIA Connects which somebody can just kind of observe, you know, don't even have to have your camera on just listen. So just start getting some exposure to these topics. That's how I would recommend getting started, it's great if you can have senior leadership support. I like to have the top down and bottom up kind of like the sandwich approach, it can't just all be top down, because you need that buy in from the working level, they want to be able to contribute as well. So, things fall flat if it's just top dobuy-inwn. And if it's only bottom up, things cannot be sustained. You'll run out of steam, other priorities come up. And it's just not sustainable. I think it's important to have a senior leadership discussion on this, but also form some type of diversity council with a healthy mix of different people in different leadership levels. Thinking about race, gender, and ethnicity, right? Getting those differences in the way we look at things, different perspectives, and looking at what is the one thing that we want to improve. So, let's say we want to improve representation of women in leadership as an example. Okay, great. What are the things that are getting in the way of that? Obstacles? Barriers? Okay, let's name those. And then, okay, number two, what are some things strategically we can put in place to improve that? So focusing on that outcome. What's the problem we're trying to solve is really, really important. Otherwise, you can get twisted up in all of these things that you think you should be doing, and it's a whole lot of activity. And at the end of the day, it comes out as performative.

Jan Griffiths: 42:56

Great advice. Now, time for the fun stuff. You ready?

Cheryl Thompson: 43:00

I'm ready.

Jan Griffiths: 43:01

Most embarrassing moment in your career.

Cheryl Thompson: 43:04

Oh, the most embarrassing moment in my career is when I got up to speak in front of a whole organization, not having practiced, and I totally flubbed it up and froze. And I was, it was just so embarrassing. So I think that's why I over prepare now, because of that one experience. And I remember my boss looking at me, he's like, "Oh, I didn't, I didn't know you were presenting, you should have told me you were gonna present we could have practiced you know." So that was the most embarrassing moment.

Jan Griffiths: 43:42

Oh, my gosh, that's a good one. I'll share with you mine because it feels a little off, you know, it's a little unfair to ask you to share that I don't share, right? Because I just thought about this. Just the other day. I was working at GKN down in North Carolina, and I was production unit manager working on the shop floor. And I was fairly new. And I said, okay, I want to do a tour of third shift. And everybody knows all the crazy people work third shift, we love you third shift people, but you know, and you're my people, but you know, okay. So the third shift supervisor, his name was Doug. And off we went. And in those days, I wore steel toe cap boots and blue like, blue khaki pants and a GKN stripy shirt uniform shirt with my name on it, right? So as always, because I wanted to be part of the shop floor. I never wanted that tag of being management. So, off we go. We do the tour, and Doug's a little you know, he's a little bit like, new boss, right? So, he's trying to get to know me. And I said, "So how'd it go?" I said, "Did we do okay out there? What do you think? What do you think? Was there anything I should have done? I didn't do? What give me some feedback." And he's like, "Well." And I thought, oh, what? what? I said, well, just tell me because I, I don't know how to say this. And I said, "Oh, Doug, please just tell me, what?" And he says, "Well, you're flying low." My zipper was undone the entire time. But he didn't tell me.

Cheryl Thompson: 45:15

Oh, no!

Jan Griffiths: 45:16

That's embarrassing.

Cheryl Thompson: 45:18

Yes. Yes. Oh my goodness.

Jan Griffiths: 45:22

All right. Favorite band. Who would you like to listen to?

Cheryl Thompson: 45:25

Oh my gosh, I just saw Santana in concert at Pine Knob a couple of weeks ago. So, so, good. Oh my goodness. I was in heaven. Just listening to that music and dancing and looking at Santana, who is 75 years old now.

Jan Griffiths: 45:44

Are they really?

Cheryl Thompson: 45:46

Oh, incredible. I love music. I also got to see Dave Matthews the same week. The stars aligned and when we got tickets to both concerts, but I love music. I love to dance. And Santana right now is what I've been vibing to.

Jan Griffiths: 46:02

That's great. What's your favorite app on your phone? Your social media? What's your favorite one?

Cheryl Thompson: 46:07

Oh. Hmm. I got LinkedIn.

Jan Griffiths: 46:12

Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl Thompson: 46:14

I mean, Instagram is fun. If I'm looking at apps on my phone, Candy Crush is something that I love. I love, you know, if I'm just sitting there trying to unwind after a long day. It's just that mindless activity that allows me to just kind of breathe.

Jan Griffiths: 46:32

You know what? You share that with Carrie Uhl.

Cheryl Thompson: 46:36

Oh, Carrie. Yeah.

Jan Griffiths: 46:38

She's procurement officer of GE healthcare, right? And when I interviewed Carrie, and as you know, we, those of us who know, Carrie, we know her as she is the ultimate professional. She knows her craft. She's very good at what she does, right? And I asked her a question about what she likes to do in the morning to get our day started, you know, a lot of people, I think, expected to say, you know, I run five miles or I push iron and I go to some boot camp for an hour or do yoga or something, right? And she says, "I like to do Candy Crush."

Cheryl Thompson: 47:11

Oh, wow.

Jan Griffiths: 47:13

And I love that. Because, you know, from a leadership perspective, the vulnerability that she showed to admit that was great. But it's just a thing. She really enjoyed it. It helps her get her mind and gear in the morning. And that's what she loves to. So it's a thing, Cheryl.

Cheryl Thompson: 47:29

I love it.

Jan Griffiths: 47:31

To all of our automotive leaders out there listening to this podcast today, close it up with one piece of advice that you would give them. You've been doing this for a few years now, one piece of advice to leaders in automotive, what would that be?

Cheryl Thompson: 47:49

Well, looking at your Authentic Traits of Leadership. I would recommend leaders take a look at that and focus in on the one of being self-aware.

Jan Griffiths: 48:04

Ah, yes.

Cheryl Thompson: 48:06

Right. I think that leaders, particularly leaders who have been around for a while, think that they know everything, that they think they've got it all figured out. And nobody has it all figured out. So, taking a step back, being a little humble, listen, be open-minded, and be self-aware. Recognize how you're making people feel. Recognize how you're treating people. You know, I love that Maya Angelou quote, "People will forget what you did and what you said. They will never forget how you made them feel." So, self awareness, and just taking a look inside would be my recommendation.

Jan Griffiths: 48:45

You know what, Cheryl, of all the people I've interviewed, very few people actually select self-awareness. I think you're absolutely right on. You have to be aware of who you are and where those knowledge gaps are and develop more of that growth mindset than fixed mindset. To open yourself up to be able to do this and to all of our beloved automotive leaders out there, if we are going to transform this industry, and we are going to do it, it's not all about the product. It is about the people. And it starts with self-awareness. I think you are absolutely right on. Thank you for that.

Cheryl Thompson: 49:26

Yes, yes. Well, thank you for that amazing list of traits. It is so well done. I really encourage people to take a look at that.

Jan Griffiths: 49:35

Well, thank you. And Cheryl it has been an absolute pleasure and a lot of fun having you on the show.

Cheryl Thompson: 49:40

Jan, thank you so much.

Jan Griffiths: 49:47

Thank you for listening to the Automotive Leaders Podcast. Click the listen link in the show notes to subscribe for free on your platform of choice. And don't forget to download the 21 traits of Authentic Leadership PDF by clicking on the link below. And remember, stay true to yourself, be you and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership.