Where Agility Meets Stability: Bridging Startups and Corporate Cultures

[Transcript]

[00:00:00] Jan Griffiths: Welcome to the Automotive Leaders Podcast, where we help you prepare for the future by sharing stories, insights, and skills from leading voices in the automotive world with a mission to transform this industry together. I'm your host, Jan Griffiths that passionate, rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales with over 35 years of experience in our beloved auto industry and a commitment to empowering fellow leaders to be their best authentic selves. Stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership. Let's dive in.

This episode is brought to you by Lockton. Lockton redefines business insurance and people solutions with a personal touch. Their global team of 11,000 is driven by independence, not quarters, to tailor success for your business. Discover the Lockton difference, where your goals become their mission. Independence, it's not just how you think but how you act.

We often talk about startups and we talk about legacy auto. How about today we spend some time breaking through some myths about startups, about leaders, and founders of startups? With me today, as a co-host on the podcast is somebody who knows a thing or two about that subject, Alisyn Malek. Alisyn, welcome back to the mic.

[00:01:51] Alisyn Malek: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be on this side of the proverbial table with you as a co-host today.

[00:01:58] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, I know this is uncharted waters. I'm a little scared if I'm honest, but hey, here we go. So, we've got to break through some of these myths about startup culture, and we have got to embrace this talent ecosystem that embraces both legacy auto and startups. And before we get into it, we have brought on the show today a guest who knows a thing or two about that subject because he has crossed that divide several times. André Weimerskirch, welcome to the show.

[00:02:32] Andre Weimerskirch: Thank you, Jan. Thank you, Alisyn. Thanks for having me here.

[00:02:36] Jan Griffiths: When we think of a founder of a startup, we tend to think of a kid, somebody who's young, maybe a geeky tech-looking nerdy guy that's sitting in their corner of WeWork or somewhere coming up with the latest technology. Is that really true, Alisyn?

[00:02:52] Alisyn Malek: Actually, Jan, it's not. While we do have the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world that we can look at that did start something in their college dorm room, and we'll hear a story of another founder today, most founders are in their late thirties to mid-forties and have deep professional expertise that allows them to find a true problem with a real need to get solved and a willingness to pay. And that's why I think it's so exciting to be able to have this conversation with André today and help people to realize their untapped talent as well.

[00:03:23] Jan Griffiths: Point of clarification, they could also be in their 50s. Just saying.

[00:03:27] Alisyn Malek: True. Even more expertise.

[00:03:31] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, right. Okay, so let's talk about you, André. What is your story? Tell us your story.

[00:03:38] Andre Weimerskirch: Yes. So, a long time ago, I got a PhD in Germany. You can hear I'm German. So, while I was getting my PhD in cryptography and data security, my PhD advisor was approached by many companies and car makers, if I can support them in solving their cybersecurity problems. And so, I did that partly as part of my PhD. I luckily finished my PhD, got my PhD, and then, you know, my PhD advisor and I thought, that's not really academic work that we are doing here. Why don't we just, you know, start a startup company that was called ESCRYPT for embedded systems and cryptography, ESCRYPT is still in Germany. And so, it turned out there was really a need for it. Car makers, all sorts of industries. I remember working for manufacturers of gambling machines, satellites, all these sorts of things. And then, you know, we grew the company. I sold it to Bosch in 2012. So, I was with Bosch for a couple of years or under the Bosch for a couple of years. I think with most founders, then I felt its really time for me to let go. I came from academia, and always liked academia, so I actually went back to academia. I joined the University of Michigan, the Transportation Research Institute there or UMTRI. And then, in 2016, I was approached by Lear Corporation, Lear is the largest American automotive supplier. They needed someone to build their cyber security, and I really liked what they told me. I like to check out how is it to actually have many resources when you build something. So, I did that in 2016; I built their cybersecurity and did many more things there on safety, software, and so on. And now, recently, I felt, you know what? I want to jump back into the different world of startup again, into the innovative world, more innovative world. And so, about three months ago, I joined Block Harbor.

[00:05:56] Jan Griffiths: Wow. So, I gotta ask you, I mean, come on, you go from a startup, and then all of a sudden, you're working for Bosch. What was that like?

[00:06:05] Andre Weimerskirch: It's rough. It's rough. I have to admit. I should be fair. It is both rough and beautiful. You get handed all these resources suddenly. We wanted to open an office in any location; Bosch had an office there, no problem. It took us a week, and we had an office in Korea, in Japan, and many other locations. But it's also rough because suddenly, you know, like you're used to moving very fast, you're used to making decisions yourself, and suddenly you need to follow all these processes, procedures, how to do business. So, it's not easy to be fair.

[00:06:50] Jan Griffiths: But some people find that comforting. They find security in having those processes and procedures. Makes them feel safe. They know what to do. But it doesn't help you when you're talking about speed and innovation, does it?

[00:07:05] Andre Weimerskirch: It doesn't. And to be fair, I think there's a huge difference if you are a founder, and then you need to follow all these processes, and you get slowed down a lot. Or if you join a large corporation, you get exposed to these processes, and you just naturally follow them. I think there's a huge difference at what time you join a company and at what size it is. But I totally agree; that's the beauty of the startup world: you have full control over what you do. You can check out things; you can do it much faster. You don't have the safety net that you have in a large corporation. You need to be very careful because everything you do, if you fail, has a significant impact. It can be commercially or financially quite a problem for the company, but as I said, it has the beauty of being able to move so fast.

[00:08:04] Alisyn Malek: Were there aspects of like process and managing resources that you found useful after having been in a startup, then you went to a big company, and now you're back at a startup? Are there things that you learned or experienced where you're like, "Oh, I'll borrow some of that," now that you're at Block Harbor?

[00:08:20] Andre Weimerskirch: Yes. Yeah. Tons of it, actually. So, when I did my first startup, ESCRYPT, I was inexperienced. It was all about getting things done quickly. Delivering what customers want, but not having the experience really how to do it. So, it's very mentally consuming; it drains your energy. And then, I went to work for this large corporation and, like large corporations, have extremely experienced people. They know how to execute; they know how to get things done. They have 30 years of experience, they know all the tools, they received so much training, they're great mentors. So, I learned huge amounts how to get stuff done, how to lead people, how to make sure that everyone is happy, how to get everyone on the same page. And, basically, that's why I find it so fascinating now to return to the startup world. I try to basically bring in all this expertise from eight years in a corporation into the startup world to move both really fast and be innovative, but do it in a clever way, like what I learned in a corporation.

[00:09:43] Alisyn Malek: So as you think about Block Harbor and the skills that you're bringing, it sounds like you definitely see areas for pulling people that have deep expertise and applying them to startup problems. Are there things that you think people need to be aware of if they're, maybe they're not founding a company, but they're joining an early stage company? They're bringing expertise but joining a new culture.

[00:10:05] Andre Weimerskirch: Yes, the startup companies are not as organized as large corporations, and they shouldn't be; they can't be, right? I think the ability to move fast collides with having extremely solid structures and processes. But the startup world is probably has a little bit too few structures and mechanisms. And I think experienced people, if they understand both worlds, can bring in the structure to the startup worlds to be eventually efficient. I'm thinking back about my own time and my first startup, I worked crazy hours as many people in the startup world now. You work long days, you work weekends, and I learned working for a corporation that's not the way to be successful. I truly believe that now, the way to be successful is to think through problems, prioritize, and then do the things that really matter. It's the old idea of the Pareto principle: really 20 percent of the things you do will have 80 percent of the impact, or in different words, if you sort of can discard all the noise, the small stuff that doesn't matter, you will actually get far more results and output than what I used to do in like long weeks. And that's what I'm trying to push into Block Harbor. And that's generally what I believe experienced people from industry can bring into startups to basically train startups; this is how you need to use your resources.

[00:11:59] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, and I have to agree with you. I saw that myself when I started my business, I have a lot of program management in my background. Take podcast production, for example; one of the first things I did was build a board on Monday.com. That's a workflow. Because there's a lot of backend production, different people have to do different things at different times, and it all has to magically come together on a release date. That's where the corporate training, all those years in program management, came into play. But the other side to that, too, is you don't have to do any of the bullshit stuff, right? So those awful meetings where you sit there, and you're like, oh God, please. Why are we even here? Why are all these people in this room listening to somebody, you know, droning on about something or something they did 30 years ago? And you're like, this has no value to me, to the team, to the mission of this company. Why do we have to put up with this? And there's none of that, because when you're a founder of a startup, and I would throw myself into that bucket as well, then you do what you believe is right for the business. You don't have to deal with any of the bullshit. But what I find interesting now is that the auto industry would pass this idea of transformation. We're into the realm of complete reinvention. So, how on earth do we take people who feel safe and comfortable with the processes of these legacy companies to start to act more like startups? We've got to bridge this gap between the two different mindsets. What do you think, Alisyn?

[00:13:42] Alisyn Malek: As a part of a project that I'm working on that brought me to the same position as your co-host. We want to tackle some of that because, like you said, it really is about mindset. You can acknowledge if you're someone that's more comfortable with clear process and procedures, you're probably the best person to come into a startup then, watch the chaos that's going on and write it down, and create the process and procedure, but it just really takes that shift in mindset to say, "Okay, it doesn't exist. I know it's making me uncomfortable, but let me just try." And that's something that we're actually working with the Office of Future Mobility and Electrification on a program called Changing Lanes. And we have Momentum, which is the career transition program. Applications are open now. Check out the website. That will be one of my couple of plugs today. But that's specifically to try to help tackle some of that because it is mindset, showing up acknowledging that it's uncomfortable, and then saying, "Okay, how am I going to try? How am I going to try to tackle this and grow?" I joke that I think founders are like addicted to that feeling of discomfort. The whole team doesn't have to be addicted to that feeling. People can come in and bring their different skill sets. And as long as there's that openness to learn and to adapt, it can actually be really beautiful in terms of bringing together expertise, passion, know-how and industry knowledge to make something entirely new happen.

[00:15:09] Jan Griffiths: We need both, don't we? To move this industry forward. We really need both. And I think that there's this idea that they are two totally separate worlds. And from what you're describing, Alisyn, this is a bridge between those two worlds and really developing a full-blown ecosystem. And I love the title, Changing Lanes. But as somebody who has Literally changed lanes and done that, there's so many people that say to me, "Oh, wow, you really got some guts to do that. We would never do that. We would never do that." And there's some fear that people have out there, and André, I want to hear your take on this, but I will tell you one of the first fears, of course, is money, and the next question is healthcare, and it's like, "Well, I can't quit my job because then I won't have healthcare." Well, okay, wait a minute. Let's really think about that statement. Yes, that is a true statement, but do you really want to live your life in a job, in a corporate environment just because of healthcare or do you want to live a more purposeful, mission driven life where there is risk and yes, you will have to fund your own healthcare for a while until that startup reaches a point that it will fund your healthcare and all the other expenses. So, it depends on, again, mindset, how do you want to live your life?

If you want to live in the safety and security of a corporate world, hey, great, fantastic! I chose not to do that and I chose to change lanes really late in life, in my fifties, where people thought, "Oh, you are insane. Nobody gets off the corporate train at that point in their life." Well, I did. And quite frankly, I couldn't be happier. Now, financially, would my income have been better had I stayed in a corporate job? Oh, hell yes. But would I have the freedom to express myself? Use my creativity and really follow a mission that I'm on. No, I wouldn't be able to do that in the corporate world. That was a bit long-winded, but André, what's your take on that?

[00:17:23] Andre Weimerskirch: I think you describe it really well. It's not easy to change from the corporate world to a startup for exactly those reasons. And I think it depends on when you do it, you know, like to me, it seems the times when to do it is either you're young to do a startup, you know, you don't have a family yet. Health insurance is not that important. You don't have many expenses. You have the time to really go for it and work a lot. And then it seems there's a phase in life where it's really tough. And then, once you get a little bit older, it's probably a bit more relaxed again financially, you can afford to maybe pay your own health insurance or so, but I had exactly the same thoughts, you know, like the salary is much lower. The benefits are far worse. The risk level is much higher. When you're in corporate, I like the words you used, safe and secure; there's not much that can happen. You receive every single insurance there pretty much is, right? And then, you move to startup and it's quite the opposite. So, I do truly believe startup isn't for everyone. You need to have that conviction that you really want this. You need to have the drive to be in control, to be innovative. I certainly wish there were more support for startups. Wouldn't it be great if the government or the state covers, say, health insurance and benefits for people like me, right? To make it easier. But I think there's also for corporations really an opportunity. When I look back at my time in corporate, I think you climb the career ladder in corporate because you're great in executing. But corporate also pushes out people who are innovative and they need to change that mindset. They need to fully embrace it so that the people who don't want to take that step to move to the startup world that they can still be really successful in corporate and push innovation into corporations.

[00:19:40] Jan Griffiths: Alisyn, how do we get those people who have been in corporate and they're just bursting, they're just dying to break out and become a founder, to take their idea, work with their creativity. Tell me more about this program, the Changing Lanes program. How do they do that?

[00:19:59] Alisyn Malek: Yeah. So, I think this is actually something that's pretty unique to the auto industry here in Michigan. And I'll say the Rust Belt broadly. I've spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley, in Berlin, and Japan, and other innovation ecosystems where this, I'll work at a corporate for a bit, then I'll go to a startup, and I'll go back to a corporate like that movement is really fluid. People have the networks. You can be in a startup but know how corporates work. Corporates, you know, people might know a little bit about like venture capital, which is oftentimes some of the first money that might come into a company to help it get started. And here, that really isn't the case.

So, when I started my own journey, I was an engineer at GM and just really curious about startups, reading about them, but it was 2008. It was not a great economic time to be just jumping off and doing things, willy-nilly. So, I just tried; it felt like brute force to try to figure out how to break into the ecosystem because there wasn't a lot of connectivity. So, in the state of Michigan, in particular, there are entities called smart zones that their whole reason for being is to help people that have interesting ideas and small companies to help them scale. Get them access to resources and training, work on their sales approach, and meet their customers because that is really the first step, if you have a good idea, to do all of that. And so, with Changing Lanes, there's the Momentum Program that I talked about, but we also want to just help more professionals learn about the smart zone resources that exist and help them to learn about, I've seen this problem. Why doesn't somebody solve it? Like, well, why not you? Like you've seen it. You're not the only person working on this in industry. So, there's probably at least 10 more of you that need it at your company, let alone across the whole industry. How do we go from "somebody should" to "I could." And then access the resources that help. A great one is the Business Model Canvas to think through what is your value proposition? Who are your customers really? How and why are they going to pay you? This all, when you've been working in the entrepreneurship space, seems really basic, but when you are in an established industry that's over a hundred years old, that is sort of intrinsically known as opposed to really digested. And so, there's tons of resources to help with things like that. And we want to help bridge people in to be able to take better advantage of them. Including fireside chats that are coming up as well as what we're calling Vision Workshops to help those people that have heard or felt something that they've seen where they're like, "Oh, somebody should just fix this. This is obnoxious." It could be a part. It could be a process. It could be a software. It could be a database, whatever it is, somebody should do that. Why not you? And let's help you explore that. You don't even have to leave your job yet. I think that's another misconception is that in order to start a startup, you have to quit your job. It is long hours, I will say, and you do need to be very careful about IP and resources that you use, but you can start to do customer discovery while you still have a paycheck. You can start to have those conversations, feel it out. You can also buy healthcare on the open market if you need to. That is a resource that really, in the last 15 years, is very different. So, we'll acknowledge that in the past it was very hard, now it is easier to be able to access those types of resources, but you don't have to quit your day job quite yet. But your evenings might be spent at your dinner table, if you have kids, they're doing homework, you're doing customer discovery. You're using your lunch break to do customer calls like that's the hustle that doesn't require you to quit your day job, and you might actually surprise yourself; you could be busier with more energy. If it's something you're truly passionate about, like Jan, I'm sure you've worked long days launching production lines. Those are long days. Those are weekends. Those are weeks away from home. Like auto, people get it. We know how to work hard, but when it is yours, and you just want to crack that nut and solve that problem, it's totally different. It's totally true.

[00:24:04] Jan Griffiths: It is. And I got to tell you, you know, when I get up in the morning, I'm bounding out of bed, and I'm like, okay, I had this idea like yesterday or this morning, and I got to work on it. And I might spend four hours researching something because I can. And it's exhilarating and it's exciting.

[00:24:22] Andre Weimerskirch: Maybe I can support that too. So, like in my job now, I work more hours than in my old job and I feel much, much better. I think it's a huge difference if you basically get dictated what you need to work on, and you know, you work through this, or you control what is the right thing to do, and you get it done. It's much more fulfilling, satisfying, and the time passes much faster.

[00:24:52] Jan Griffiths: So, I'm guessing you're not a big fan of command and control leadership then André?

[00:24:58] Andre Weimerskirch: No. No.

[00:25:00] Jan Griffiths: I know you've read the 21 traits of Authentic Leadership, so tell me which one of those traits resonates with you that you believe. Being somebody who has indeed changed lanes from startup to corporate and back again, what is the most important leadership trait as you see the auto industry evolving into the future?

[00:25:20] Andre Weimerskirch: Yes, I hope it's okay that I pick two.

[00:25:23] Jan Griffiths: You can pick two.

[00:25:24] Andre Weimerskirch: So, I pick two. So, I read it and I really like it. I thought, "Oh my god, they're all so good. Can I pick all of them, all 21?" The one where I immediately feel home is honesty and integrity. I think it's just my character. It probably comes from me working or why I developed it so much working for this Tier One supplier, being responsible for the safety and security of the products. I was responsible for whatever product goes out, it needs to be safe and secure, but I had a fairly small team compared to all the people who worked on the product to ensure that needs to be safe and secure. All this idea that, hey, I'm this VP and I can just tell people what to do. That didn't fly. I learned fairly quickly that people don't care that I'm a VP if they don't report to me. They report to someone else. They need to meet deadlines. They need to get the product out. So, I learned to get people on the same page and do the right thing. Make sure that these products are safe and secure. I need to be honest; I need to be very clear, and I have the people to trust me. My experience has been that's what I achieve with honesty and integrity to have people follow me. Since then, that's what I took with me, and that's really important to me. The second trait that I find most compelling and also most underappreciated is cognitive diversity. Too many teams have this approach of, "Oh, this person is thinking so differently to us. It's difficult to work with," as usually goes along those lines, right? And I discovered for myself, no, I just need that input. I need the input from people who work totally different than I am and think differently about problems. I really appreciate that. I actually thrive from it. And so, I had a little bit of the image in my previous job that I attracted all the people that were, by others, considered to be difficult. So, I sort of say sucked those people up in my team. And I feel that's really where companies still need to learn so much to utilize this. And, as I said, I love this term, cognitive diversity, the differences in mindsets like, you know, I use this resource.

[00:28:07] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. And really, that's what we're talking about here. Isn't that's what this is? It is about cognitive diversity. It's about bringing diverse views and perspectives, and opinions from people who are experienced and startup organizations together.

[00:28:23] Andre Weimerskirch: Yes, exactly.

[00:28:24] Alisyn Malek: So, one of the other interesting parts of startups is, yes, there's the founding team, but there's also everybody else that needs to come on board and get excited about a vision. I think a lot of that leadership comes down to the trust and the integrity and honesty that you talked about. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more tactically about what does it feel like if you're joining into a new company? You just recently joined Block Harbor. What does it feel like to be somebody that's been in industry, you're bringing your expertise, you're joining a startup, and maybe what have you seen from some of the other junior people on your team, André?

[00:28:58] Andre Weimerskirch: Yeah, as I said, I just joined Block Harbor about three months ago. The beginning of joining a startup can be rough if you're not prepared. So, in my case, I actually knew Block Harbor for more than two years, close to three years, I was an external advisor to them. And I would highly recommend it to you. Like if you have experience in the industry and you want to join a startup company, reach out to them check what makes sense to you. In a small startup company. it is important that you feel at home there, that you understand how do the people work, what is their mindset, do you share the same values. It's not like corporate. In corporate, your boss usually changes every year or something, and you change divisions and all of that stuff, right? In a startup company, there's no easy exit within the company. So, really, my advice is to reach out early, get used to them, and then you will still be surprised once you join, but at least that phase will be fairly short. I have something like 20 years of experience in this industry. I think that same makes sense for more junior people, I would highly recommend really take your time, talk to as many people as you can, say as part of interviews before you join a startup companies. Get a sense of who the important people are, how they work, how they take, and if you feel your values fit there. And then, I think all levels can really contribute to the startup company. Like just as I said earlier, startup companies, you need somewhat experienced people to bring in structure, to bring in strategy, and then you can always contribute.

[00:30:58] Alisyn Malek: You bring up a really good point for people that want to just get their toes wet. Maybe they've got a startup they're curious about. Early-stage startups do not have a lot of resources, and they don't know everything. If they think they know everything, look for a different startup. They don't know everything. And so, they're always looking for advisors. You brought up a great example that you started as an advisor with Block Harbor, which allows you to get to know the team and get comfortable with the risk profile. Do you think it's a good product? That's going to be a going concern. You'll be able to have an income for a while. But it's a great opportunity to be able to get your toes wet and start to understand what a startup life looks like in a way that doesn't, again, force you to quit your day job. Be careful about IP and which laptops you use to do things. That is as much of a disclaimer as I know to give you, but I think that's another opportunity, Jan, I would definitely recommend your listeners explore. Even if you don't think you want to leave your corporate job, if you feel like you, I mean, you're listening to Jan's podcast. So, you know, the industry is changing, and the culture needs to change. This is a great way to get exposure to how other organizations work. And then, a great organization here in Michigan that works in this space in terms of helping to connect people that want to be mentors, Ann Arbor SPARK is one that's great; they've got a mentor in residence program. Then, Centropolis Accelerator, based in Southfield with Lawrence Technological University, specifically focuses on Industry 4.0 and manufacturing, always looking for industry expertise to help with advising startups.

[00:32:29] Jan Griffiths: In summary, it is a myth that startups are geeky, nerdy kids in the corner of a co-working space. It is an absolute myth, and André and I are living proof of that, but hopefully, we have busted through that myth for our listeners. And if you want to explore the startup ecosystem, there are ways to do it. But the question I believe that you should ask yourself first is how you want to live your life. If you want to live and stay in the comfortable corporate world, that is perfectly fine, and there is no judgment from me or anyone else for wanting to do that, but if there is some creativity in you or some innovation in you that you know that there's a way that you can found a company or even get into that ecosystem. There's a way to do that. We will put links in the show notes to Changing Lanes and the programs that Alisyn described. So, think about how you want to live your life. It's never too late to change lanes. I am living proof of that. You all know it. And there are organizations here to help.

[00:33:45] Alisyn Malek: Thank you, Jan, so much. It was an absolute pleasure and honor being your co-host today. I'm really glad that we could bring this conversation with André because I think there are so many people that listen to your work that probably have seen something where they've been like, "Oh man, someone should fix this." and I hope that this conversation today will help them to transition to, "Maybe I could." And that the resources that we've got available with Changing Lanes can help open the door to what types of resources there are available. hopefully, we shared some good insights for people to be able to get active, go out there, advise, start talking, and start showing up. The startup community is ready for you.

[00:34:24] Jan Griffiths: From "Somebody should" to "Yes, I could." I love that tagline. André, thank you very much for joining us today. Final thoughts from you?

[00:34:34] Andre Weimerskirch: Well, thank you so much for having me here. And both of you, Jan and Alisyn, thank you so much for pushing this topic forward and I hope you will be super successful.

[00:34:46] Jan Griffiths: Thank you.

Thank you for listening to the Automotive Leaders Podcast. Click the listen link in the show notes to subscribe for free on your platform of choice, and don't forget to download the 21 Traits of Authentic Leadership PDF by clicking on the link below. And remember stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership.