Meet Todd Ballard, former Chief Marketing Officer at GoPro

[Transcript]

Welcome to the finding gravitas podcast brought to you by gravitas Detroit, looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding gravitas is the podcast for you gravitas as the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership, junior podcast, host Jan Griffiths, that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur leadership, coach keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for gravity.

[00:00:44] Yes.

[00:00:51] In this episode, you'll make Todd Ballard previously, the chief marketing officer for GoPro Todd, is that unique combination [00:01:00] of the entrepreneurial spirit and an authentic leader. He started his entrepreneurial journey really early on selling toys to neighbors as a kid. Yes, that's right. You'll hear more about that in his story.

[00:01:15] What I love about Todd's leadership style is. His genuine interest and concern about the whole person on his team. It truly drives him. He focuses on what does success look like for them? And we'll talk about how that manifests in different ways in his leadership style. We also talk about imposter syndrome, managing creatives.

[00:01:45] And managing that growth when you take a company from a startup into what it is today, which is, uh, in excess of a billion dollars, consumer electronic and lifestyle brand, what does that growth really look like? And maintaining that innovative [00:02:00] creative type of environment. So let's get right into it.

[00:02:05] Todd ballad, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me excited to be here. Aheads. Great to have you. I can't wait to hear your story. Let's get right into it. What is your story, Mr. GoPro guy? Yeah. Well, Hey, I mean, I guess the title is, you know, in a sense you just said it GoPro guy, um, for the last decade, plus.

[00:02:29] Um, I think I've really honed my career professionally by being at GoPro starting, um, working with GoPro 13 years ago, I had an agency for eight years. Um, GoPro was a client of mine and, um, ended up joining GoPro full-time in 2011. And in, um, since 2011 helped build the brand from basically a start up phase organization to.

[00:02:55] What people know of today is as GoPro as a publicly traded billion dollar [00:03:00] consumer electronic brand, um, as well as a lifestyle brand. So I've gone through a lot of the trials and tribulations, ups and downs laughters and cries and celebrations of, um, being part of an organization like that. And, uh, yeah.

[00:03:15] Um, recently have resigned from the organization and just starting to figure out what's next for me. So let's go back a couple of steps. So how do you become the GoPro guy? Where did you, where did you grow up? Todd was your story start? I grew up in, in Southern California, um, typical Southern California childhood, um, San Diego to be specific.

[00:03:39] And, um, I always considered myself to be pretty entrepreneurial as a kid. I was the. I was the kid going around, always trying to sell something to the neighbors, whether it's my own toys or, uh, greetings cards or, um, whatever it was. I was always very entrepreneurial. I always liked the spirit of [00:04:00] investing time into something, getting something out of it.

[00:04:02] Um, and, um, more or less stayed in Southern California. Um, you know, moved around a little bit that late teens. Um, went to a local community college and I'll say I was, I was never a studious individual. I never had the patience for school. Um, so I lasted about a year and a half in school before I decided to chase the entrepreneurial spirit and go the other direction, which of course scared the hell out of my parents.

[00:04:33] Um, but it always chase my passion and my heart. And. Um, went down that road by actually starting a mail order company of all things and got to remember, this was obviously before the internet. So people kind of look at me sideways when I say mail order now, but back in the, uh, mid nineties, there, there wasn't an internet.

[00:04:54] So, or a very early internet, I should say. So, um, I had a mail order [00:05:00] company, which was basically selling skateboards and snowboards and, um, lifestyle products. And that really kind of built my introduction into at the time action sports, um, built relationships with brands and athletes and media publications.

[00:05:17] And I learned really quickly. Um, but where my strength was really was on the relationship side of the business, um, consider myself a marketer and, and definitely, um, you know, uh, the creative side, but really it was about the relationships and building relationships that. Helped me build my business. And really those relationships carried me from, you know, starting a small mail order company in the mid nineties to the chief marketing officer of a publicly traded billion dollar company in 2020.

[00:05:50] I'm fascinated to know how your, the ship style changed and evolved as the company grew. Because as you said, you [00:06:00] started with them when they were basically a startup. And now they're in excess of a billion dollars in revenue. I mean, understanding how to manage yourself and your function and others doing that growth.

[00:06:12] Tell us a little bit about that journey. Yeah. I, I I'd say regardless of being in startup phase or, or where GoPro is now, it's always been about the people. Um, it's always been about understanding whether it's calling of yours or employee of yours. Um, what is it, what does success look like for them? What does success look like for them professionally?

[00:06:32] What does success look like for them personally? And how do you work with them to help them achieve that success? And I think once you build that relationship, understand their dependencies, help understand what they're being held accountable for. It really breaks down silos and opens up an opportunity for a.

[00:06:55] It helps you build a long productive relationship. Um, and it built around trust [00:07:00] and built around respect. And I think again, regardless of startup phase or where GoPro is now, that's kind of been a constant throughout my, my career and where I, I feel my success as a leader has come from by really building those personal relationships with people.

[00:07:16] You mentioned the word silo, the dreaded dreaded silo, the poison and corporate America today. Um, when you're a startup, I would imagine it's fairly easy to figure out who needs to do what and when, and work together and work on bring your strengths and your certain skillset to the table. But as you grow, there has to be some semblance of order and structure.

[00:07:42] Right. So at what, when does that happen? I I'm, I'm curious. And I'm asking the question because I spoke to a startup company just recently and they're very excited about supporting each other and they're all there and they've all got each other's backs, you know, nobody has any [00:08:00] understanding of what.

[00:08:01] Toxic politics could look like and how that could creep into the organization as it grows. So at what point do you realize, Hey, we got to get some structure in here, but we don't want it to the point that we get people in silos. Can you, I mean, I know that was probably some time ago, but could you speak to that?

[00:08:18] I think, you know, it, it's tough when you're in an organization that grows as fast as GoPro was growing, where. You're so focused on taking those next steps that sometimes you forget to build foundations and, and you're, you're trying to build a rickety bridge over, uh, a Canyon and you're not building proper infrastructure because you're trying to get to the site so fast.

[00:08:39] And I think that's ease that happens easily. Hap happened at GoPro, for sure. As we started to expand, bringing in many more employees into the organization, especially. More senior level managers. That's where silos start to happen. I believe. And again, for me, it was really taking the [00:09:00] time to understand who the individuals were, what they were brought in to do what success looks like for them and how I can be a part of that and vice versa.

[00:09:09] And, and of course silos happened as happened in every organization, but. It was something that I was personally very passionate about, ensuring that we didn't get into that situation as much as possible. So what I would do is try to once a year was even just within my team, I'd bring my team together.

[00:09:32] And help everybody understand what their job was. And again, as a fast-growing organization, a lot of times people lose sight of what their job is, what their role is within the organization. When you're wearing a lot of different hats, it's easy to get lost, um, in, in what you were originally hired to do and what you're doing today.

[00:09:50] So I would bring my team together and everybody would write down what their job is and they'd present to each other. I'm Todd Ballard, and this is [00:10:00] what I do at GoPro. And I'd also have them list out what their, who their five, uh, dependencies are within the organization for success. So it'd be a round table to understand it would take a long time because we'd have a lot of people, but everyone would have an opportunity to say, here's what I think my job is.

[00:10:17] And at the end of it, we got a couple of great things out of it. One, I felt you could see weight lifted off of people, this feeling of. I know what my job is, again, here at the organization, but we'd also be able to identify where the gaps were because every time there would be maybe a handful of things that nobody said they did that were critical for somebody to do.

[00:10:39] And we realized nobody was doing that and everybody assumed somebody else was doing it. So it gave that opportunity to identify gaps. And then I think the most special part about it was this communication where people had the opportunity to tell their peers, Hey. You're important in my path to success.

[00:10:58] And I want you to [00:11:00] know that, um, and it just really bred this, this teamwork and this, this understanding and this level of respect to each other. So I think that was something that I continue to do that was really, really important. And then the great part of that is you can take it outside of your own department and, and share it with other parts of the organization.

[00:11:18] Because even as a marketer, part of my, my dependencies for success were. People in finance people in the legal team, people in operations. So, um, that was an opportunity for me to not only document it, but also go and have conversations with them. Um, so they were aware that they were important in my path to success.

[00:11:38] And just even just communicating to that created a, a deeper relationship. I think people, when they hear that, that, Hey, this person's success is dependent on me. You'd be amazed. How many people step up to that challenge and want to be part of that? I love that because it's simple, it's powerful, it's tremendously effective.

[00:11:59] And I think [00:12:00] there are so many benefits that come off of that. Not only is it about people understanding what everybody else does and where the gaps are, but you also have stripped out a tremendous source of an angst. Out of the organization, because if we look at where teams fail, right, often it's in the communication process.

[00:12:19] And then they get mad at each other because they say, well, this guy was supposed to do that and he didn't do it. And I can't do this because he didn't give me that. And they don't take the time to put themselves in the other person's shoes and understand what they want. And you've mentioned. A couple of times already.

[00:12:36] I need to understand what success means to them. Yes. So putting yourself in the other person's shoes to understand what's important to them, what drives them? What success is to them, what they need to be successful. I think that that's an area of leadership that really doesn't get as much attention as it deserves.

[00:12:57] Maybe it's because we all think that it's just, [00:13:00] well, you know, everybody's got an org structure and, um, We've got the metrics and we've got the, the, the job description, uh, you know, you just come in and you do your job and everything will be fine. And it's not, it's not about the structure and the metrics.

[00:13:14] It's about the unsaid things. It's about the behaviors of the team that really accelerate team performance. So I love that. How did you, how did you come upon that? Was that something that you just. Developed yourself. And you had some success with it or that one specifically it was really, um, just something that came out of understanding where or not understanding, I guess, maybe even a little, um, where my team's struggles were for a while, as we were growing so quickly.

[00:13:45] And so many new people are coming into the organization that I had to find some way. To bring people together. Um, and it was, you know, it was very rudimentary of, Hey, write this down, we're all going to sit in the boardroom and we're going to [00:14:00] go person by person and have this conversation. So it was, yeah, that, that really just came out of a need.

[00:14:07] Um, and, and trying to find a solution for it. Another thing that we would do, and we did a couple times was statement of purpose development, which was a friend, which I ended up hiring. Into GoPro, um, had this process for developing what we call the tombstone test, which sounds grim, but it was the idea of everybody standing around your grave.

[00:14:30] What is it you want to be remembered for personally and professionally? And how do you develop first? Part of that is understanding what your statement of purpose is. What do you want to be remembered for? Who, who do you want to be as a person? How does that translate to the personal side and professional side?

[00:14:45] How do you create the least amount of daylight between your personal life and your professional life? And then how do you hold yourselves and allow other people to hold you accountable to being that type of a person? So that was definitely another piece that went [00:15:00] into into that. Um, and something that, that we would review again on a, on an annual basis, we'd create a departmental statement of purpose.

[00:15:08] And then we would create our own individual statement of purposes and actually have little laminated cards. One side would be a personal, the other side would be your team. Um, statement of purpose, just to kind of remind yourself of the idea of remind of reviewing. It was really, am I still, am I still staying true to the person I want to be?

[00:15:30] Um, and it's, it's gotta be flexible. And I think you said something earlier around, you know, jobs and, um, organizational structures and job descriptions, and you have to allow for flexibility in those things. You know, I think that's a, that's a. A base of where you start from, but ultimately everybody's going to bring their own, um, personal flavor to that.

[00:15:53] And it's, it's got, you got to allow people to adjust and adapt based off what that base description [00:16:00] might be or that base organizational structure is. So I think that flexibility and, and constant review of where you're at, um, as an individual, as a department, as an entire organization is important and.

[00:16:15] Be open to the flexibility because that's where I think the magic comes from from an individual is when you allow for that flexibility. Yeah, absolutely. And not only that you alone for that flexibility, but then for that person to feel safe and comfortable in that environment, because there's an awful lot of vulnerability here, right?

[00:16:36] If you want me to talk about my purpose in life, let's say I started working for you, you know, GoPro or any company I just started working for you and you, you brought me into this meeting and he said, okay, we're going to do this tombstone tasks and talk about your purpose and mission in life. You know, I got to imagine some people would be a little uncomfortable bearing their soul if you will.

[00:16:59] So [00:17:00] you had to create an environment where people felt safe. Yeah. How do you do that? Yeah, I think, you know, you, you gotta, you gotta. Walk the walk and, and the word you just used was really important. One that I'm happy that we're touching on, which is vulnerability. And I think, you know, um, that's another word I don't feel enough people use when they're talking about leadership is vulnerability and, um, uh, you know, you talk to the hundreds of people that have worked for me.

[00:17:30] And they'll tell you, you know, I, I was not afraid to show vulnerability in. Um, in myself and I don't think vulnerability is weakness at all, but I think it helps build trust and it allows other people to become vulnerable. And I think when you get to that point, you know, of, of an organization that isn't afraid to show who they are or what they think or what they might be scared of, or have anxiety around, um, it just [00:18:00] fosters better teamwork, better trust, more respect.

[00:18:06] Um, you know, between one to one, relationships are one to many relationships. So. Um, vulnerability is, is definitely been, um, a big part of my, my leadership over the years. I agree with you when I started my career, vulnerability was absolutely a sign of weakness, no question, right? Particularly in the automotive industry, you better be charging ahead.

[00:18:27] You better be in showing that you are in charge. You're in control. You've got the answers, you know, when you're going down a path. And then I learned over the years, many years of being an industry, that that was the worst thing that you could. Possibly do that. If you really want to develop a high-performance team, you need to engage the hearts and minds of every single person on that team.

[00:18:48] And you do that by connecting with the human being right. It. And I think that, I mean, obviously there's a lot of discussion right now about vulnerability in Bernay Brown and her work. Yeah. [00:19:00] But I'm still not so sure that it's being practiced. You know, people are saying the words and that we see all the postings on LinkedIn and everybody's, you know?

[00:19:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, like, like comment, comment, comment, but then when you actually get into the workplace, you know, that human ego kicks in and they're like, no, I'm, I'm the boss. I, I, I'm not going to show you that I'm falling apart. You particularly recently with the pandemic, right? What a perfect time to show vulnerability.

[00:19:27] And I've heard stories where people were talking to their boss, who perhaps previously were a bit buttoned up, always in a suit, always command and control type. And then all of a sudden there's a four year old screaming in the background and a cat jumps on the laptop a little bit more, a bit more vulnerable.

[00:19:44] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. These times have definitely, um, Demanded a vulnerability out of people. So I, which I think is a good thing. And, you know, I, I, I don't think being vulnerable shows any lack of, of [00:20:00] confidence or ability, but I, I think, you know, we learn, um, personally, professionally, spiritually through other people.

[00:20:09] And if you're not getting, um, a person in their real. Entity identity. I don't think, I think it's a, it's a shame and you're being ripped off of a significant part of, of a relationship. So. I think it's important. Yeah. And you talked about closing the daylight between the personal and professional self, and I agree with that wholeheartedly.

[00:20:35] And I, I think there is definitely more of a shift now to do that. You know, I remember the days when I would never have anybody on my team. On my Facebook account. Right, right. Cause that was totally separate. Yeah. And because I didn't know if, you know, if you have to fire somebody, if you have to, you know, have a difficult conversation with somebody, you didn't necessarily want to know the ins and outs of your personal knife.

[00:21:00] [00:21:00] And I looked back at that and I just, you know, I sort of smile. I. Say to myself, what were you thinking? Right. You are one person, you are one human being and now everything is, is open. I mean, my all my social major is, is wide open. I will admit though for Facebook, for my personal Facebook, I need to make sure that I have a relationship with the person and I don't just let anybody in, but I certainly don't keep it as tight as I used to put it that way.

[00:21:29] So I'm closing. Yes. Yeah. And I, and again, I, you know, I think. I'm the same way on faith. I think for me, Facebook, maybe where I would share more, you know, personal type of things. And, you know, it's an opportunity for family members that you're not around or friends that you don't see so often to see how your family is growing and, and achievements of your kids and things like that.

[00:21:50] Where, um, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm a little more critical about people I'll let into, um, you know, Facebook. I mean, if it's somebody I would allow into my house, I'll allow [00:22:00] them into my Facebook, but, um, You know, I think everything else is a little more wide open and, um, you know, um, but you know, I there's, a lot of previous employees I'm still having that.

[00:22:11] I would have it to my house that are in my Facebook still. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's funny how the situation has evolved over time. But so here we are today and we're talking about authentic leadership, which of course is my favorite subject to talk about. So tell me, Todd, uh, there are many different facets and traits to authentic leadership, but what is authentic leadership to you?

[00:22:36] I think authentic leadership to me is. Saying what you mean? Um, acting, talking, the talk, walking, the walk, being real, being vulnerable, being respectful, helping people better understand themselves, not only professionally, but also personally, um, and helping them as we've been saying, I want to sound like a broken record, but [00:23:00] helping, helping people find that magical spot between their personal life and their professional life.

[00:23:07] Um, and being comfortable and knowing what their role is within is an organization. What the steps are to succeed, you know, for what they're being held accountable for and how to grow. Um, I, I was very much a leader who gave a long leash to people and allowed, allowed individuals to push themselves. Um, maybe take on projects where.

[00:23:33] Um, a little much for them, but, you know, I always gave people the benefit of the doubt allowed them to, to grow into, into roles, um, as much as possible. And, you know, I was, I was pleasantly surprised most of the time by doing that. So, yeah, I think, I think that really is authentic leadership to me. How to, how do you continue to provide an environment for people to, to grow personally and professionally.

[00:24:00] [00:24:00] For that environment to succeed again, I want to go back to this issue of safety, right? People have to feel safe right in that environment. Um, and GoPro is a company that I would associate very much with innovation, right? And innovation. You can't have innovation if you have fear of failure, because by definition, right, you, you try and try and try again and you fail and you keep going and keep going.

[00:24:25] What are some of the things that you do from a culture perspective to, to create that safe environment? How do you make people feel safe? I think people feel safe through trust, through respect, through collaboration, bringing teams together. And like you said, you know, not everything's going to work, but by working through problems together, seeing how other people are.

[00:24:54] Trying to innovate, potentially failing, trying again, seeing that [00:25:00] success sharing in the, in the ups, sharing in the downs. And you know, that brings in the word vulnerability again. I think that that really builds that safe zone for people because they're seeing you do it. They're seeing their peers experience and you're being open and about it throughout the entire process.

[00:25:20] So I think it is, comes down to trust and respect. And if you're, if you trust somebody and you feel, they respect you, be very hard not to feel safe, but that would mean that every leader on the team was behaving the same way for, for, for it to really impact the culture. Right. What do you do if either appear or somebody that you've hired?

[00:25:44] You know, you've had to bring in people from the outside is not behaving in this way. That creates a safe environment to support, trust, to show vulnerability. You bring in a, an employee and they turn out to be toxic. [00:26:00] What, what do you, what do you do? And let's say their performance is spectacular, but they just, they do not understand collaborative teamwork.

[00:26:07] Um, people don't like working with them, but yet they're making the numbers. How do you handle that toxic employee? Cause we've all had to deal with that guy gal somewhere along the line. And I think it's different if it's an individual contributor or if it's somebody who's managing. People. And I think we're talking more about maybe a manager of people.

[00:26:27] And I would, I would say they are failing as a, as a leader if that's the case. I, in those instances, it's, it's a reflection of me. I spent a lot of time working with that person to, to see if I can help change them and help, help transform them, I guess is a better way of saying it. And ultimately, if, if they're toxic, they shouldn't be part of the organization and we have to manage them out.

[00:26:50] I mean, it's. To me, pretty black and white, of course, again, giving them benefit of the doubt and working with them. And I think anytime you have to let somebody go or [00:27:00] for me, I would take it very personal. And it's again, reflection of my leadership as well, but it's the nature of the beast. And it, it happens if somebody is toxic and give an opportunity to coach them and transform them, if that doesn't happen, that they need to be out.

[00:27:13] And I think that builds more trust. And I think more feeling of safe if, if. The rest of the organization sees how you're treating those toxic people within the organization. If they say, wow, this person is not what our COO is all about. And they're dealing with it that says a lot and goes far within the organization as well.

[00:27:33] Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I think that, uh, people are looking to you as a leader to see how you're going to respond to somebody. Who's not exhibiting the behaviors that, that you want, you know, cause you're trying to walk the talk and you've got this person who isn't doing that. Yes, of course you need to coach them first to give them the opportunity, right.

[00:27:54] To make sure that they understand, but then you have to take the action. And I've seen many [00:28:00] leaders over my career. Not take that action because they continue to maintain Oh, but they get the numbers, you know, but look at the performance, but you can't do that because it is, it is a poison in the organization.

[00:28:14] And if you, if you don't take care of it, people are not going to feel safe. Totally agree. And I think another, another angle on that is. What happens if your superior within an organization doesn't act like that. And how do you handle that? And, you know, that's a little tougher when you have maybe somebody who, who you report to that doesn't maybe show those ways of operating.

[00:28:42] So I that's, that's something you gotta be a little bit more delicate with. Let's talk about energy. It's one of my favorite subjects to talk about. I love high energy, but I'm also a human being. I know that, and there are days when my energy is just off the charts, uh, but they're all [00:29:00] low days too. And you have to manage that as a leader to manage yourself.

[00:29:05] And you have to manage that within a team and maybe even within a company. So how do you manage energy? Something I've learned from a speaker. I actually brought in to talk to our marketing department. His name was clin Bruce. Same is clean. Bruce not was he, um, he was former Navy seal as well as, uh, uh, NFL football player.

[00:29:24] And one of the things he talks about is being an elite performer and how elite performers act and how they practice, how they work and how they live. And. One of the things that I really took out of his talk was this idea of building high ground for low days and premise outfit of it is when you know, you're in a very high functioning, quick changing organization.

[00:29:49] You come to know that there's going to be a long days and long hours and last minute creative changes. And it's not, if it's going to happen, it's when it's going to happen. So. At some point you [00:30:00] embrace it. That's just the type of culture and organization that you're within. How do you protect or manage a team within that?

[00:30:06] When they're looking at you of, Hey, we're working long days and long nights and how you're not maybe protecting us from other parts of the organization that are asking for some of these things, this idea of building high ground, which basically means how allowing your team to. Take time off, spend time with family, attend their children's recitals and games and things like that.

[00:30:29] And really ensuring that they're doing those things when the time allows, because we know that those low points are going to come where they're going to have to work long hours. And really we're not going to change the culture of the organization. But what we can do is change the culture of our teams by ensuring that they're balancing their personal life and their professional life.

[00:30:47] And by allowing them to have that high ground that they can go to, it makes those. Low moments a little bit more palatable. Yeah. I love that. And I've never worked for a high-tech company. [00:31:00] Uh, but I would imagine we know when you've got a lot of creative people and you've got a product, you get innovation and all these things happening so quickly.

[00:31:09] And the game changes, the products changed so fast. That you have to have that flexibility, right? You can't, can't say to people, you know, this is a nine to five job and, um, you know, this is, you gotta be in the office of these days. I know, I completely understand that. And I think it's very smart of you to recognize that and adjust and respond and be flexible, right.

[00:31:31] Flex along with that. As a leader, I think it's important to recognize how your team is doing personally. And if they are, you know, obviously a, a lot of employees want to please their boss and, um, Perform and show their output. And, um, it's important to identify when maybe somebody's burned the candle at both ends.

[00:31:52] And, and as a leader, you need to say, Hey, you know, are you spending time at home? Like leave early, don't come in today, whatever it is, I [00:32:00] don't want it. I don't want to hear from you for two days. You got to force it sometimes on people a little bit and let them know it's okay. Um, because again, those times are going to come where you will expect them to stay late and, or show up early and work over the weekend.

[00:32:15] So, um, giving them that opportunity to take some time off when, when those demands aren't there definitely helps. Yeah. So we've brought up this topic of creatives and you're a CMO you're, that's a subject and a function that you're very, very much familiar with. It's all new to me, this idea of marketing it's the first time I've ever really touched it in my life is the last two years since I launched the business.

[00:32:43] And I've learned that managing creatives. Is vastly different than the automotive industry. The environment that I came out of, I'm used to budgets and timelines, and either we're on track or we're not on track. And there's a reason that we need to mitigate the risk [00:33:00] and bring it back on track. But when you're dealing with a creative space and creatives, IEP, people that work in the creative space, it's very, very different because you cannot constrain that, that thinking.

[00:33:13] And you cannot, even though there's this idea of, of timing, you can't put them on a tight timeline. So maybe some guidance for other leaders out there who are dealing with creatives and how to manage and lead creatives. I mean the old adage business kills creativity I think is, is very real well. And I think, you know, there's a reason in the entertainment industry.

[00:33:36] There's a director and a producer have vastly different jobs. Ultimately they're come together and there needs to be a strong bond and understanding between those two. And I think finding that bond between. Maybe the project management side of how, or, you know, when we're gonna get this done, how we're going to get done in the creative side of ultimately what, what it's going to be.

[00:33:54] It's, it's important to find the yin and the yang of, of that and bringing it [00:34:00] together. But I think you're right. You have to give creatives the space and room to be creative, which is what they're good at and not. From my experience, what we did is really tried not to bog them down with the business side of it.

[00:34:14] Ultimately. Yeah, we did have timelines and we couldn't just say, Hey, you know, here's, here's a brief and here's, here's what we're trying to accomplish. And whenever it comes to you, bring it back to us. That's not going to work as a business, but you have to, there's a fine line between giving them that space, but also somewhat keeping them confined.

[00:34:32] And in some parameters of. What the project needs to be when it needs to be done and, and the message or story it needs to tell. I think by waiting down a creative with the, with the business side of it, isn't smart either. You need to have a, like a set up a producer and a director, or a really strong project manager.

[00:34:51] That's working with the creative in unison with that mutual respect between them to. Ultimately work on whatever project it is, but I see [00:35:00] a lot of shortcuts within organizations where the creative is also responsible for the business side. And, and I'm not saying it can't be done and there aren't people who can do both, but there are a lot of great creatives out there that should just be creative and allowed to live in the world that they're their best at.

[00:35:17] And then this takes me back to your earlier comment. It's about taking the time to understand what success means and what that looks like and what the individual needs. And I think that business has evolved over time and w. Many years ago, we had this idea that there was sort of a cookie cutter approach to people, right?

[00:35:38] You had to treat everybody the same. Otherwise you would consider unfair or there was some sort of favoritism. I don't know. There was this idea that you treated everybody the same. And now there's a definite shift to recognizing that every single person is an individual is human being with different needs, different, different [00:36:00] desires and different way that makes them tick.

[00:36:01] And you have to lead them in a, in a different way, every single person you have on the team. And there is this sort of, um, I think the recognition that that's okay now. But it's taken time to get there. It sounds like though, you've you had that right from the very beginning. When you look at an organization, yes.

[00:36:22] Ultimately there's organization goals that a business is trying to achieve that everything you do needs to ladder up to, but within that, that's where the silos begin because, because you have organizational goals and then you have department goals and the different will ladder into the organizational goals.

[00:36:38] And then within a department there's groups within the department and they might have their own goals and then individuals might have their own individual goals. And then the silos just become multiply and multiply and multiply. So. It's it's important to understand. Uh, for me it was important to know, right.

[00:36:54] We have our own set of goals, strategies, objectives within the marketing [00:37:00] department, but I wanted to make sure that the legal department, the finance department, the operations department, the human resources, everybody was aware of what our goals were because. That's where if we understood what their objectives and goals were, what they understood, what our goals and objectives were beyond big picture organizational goals that brought us together.

[00:37:20] And then you dig that even deeper into, into the personal level. And that's where you really start to understand that there might be five people that work within a department, but they might have slightly different goals. Between personally and professionally, what they're trying to achieve, what success looks like.

[00:37:35] So once you can understand what those are, I really think he started humming as an organization and it takes time and it's tedious, but I, the payoff is huge when, when you can get to that, that level. Well, that's when you get to the multiplier, right? When the collective, um, multiple of F everybody working together is far greater than the sum of each individual person on the team.

[00:37:59] Yeah. [00:38:00] That's very true. Let's talk about people who have perhaps influenced your leadership style or people that you, you look at what you see, um, with these people and some thing about what they do really resonates with you. So are there two or three people that you look to that you say, yeah, I kind of liked the way they do that early in, in GoPro, previous, uh, head of marketing was somebody that I definitely looked up to.

[00:38:26] And I think I learned a lot from at least from the aspect of how he. Treated people and how he took the time to understand people on a personal level, I really kind of was drawn to his ability to build relationships with different people. I really tried to mirror his way of doing things on the, on the personal side.

[00:38:48] People always ask who's your influence and, and, uh, you know, it's hard for me to pick a person or two people. I think I've. Throughout my career. I've tried to take things from lots of different people, dozens of people, strengths that they've [00:39:00] had. I've I've tried to pull, not everything from one person, but little traits from a lot of different people to ultimately design something that works best for me.

[00:39:08] So, yeah, I think it's. A lot of people in, in a lot of marketers, a lot of business leaders, CEOs, entrepreneurs that I've had the fortune to meet and talk with and take little pieces from each of them that both either I, I recognize something I could work on. Or something that I, I knew I was already good at, but it could lean in a little bit more and become even better at, of really kind of not only recognize what I need to work on, but recognize where my strengths already are.

[00:39:37] And how do I focus on those strengths a little bit? And it's yeah, I wouldn't say there's one or two people. There's probably dozens of people that's come from. Yeah. And I always tell students, uh, when I'm working with, uh, Wayne state students, you're in Detroit, but don't, don't just look at one person you're looking at different people and think about how they make you feel, what really resonates with you.

[00:39:59] And it won't [00:40:00] be everything, you know that, but there'll be certain things you'll see and you'll go, yeah, I like the way they do that and build on that and keep building and building and building. So, what, what advice would you give to your 25 year old self today in today's environment? Yeah, I would, I would tell my 25 year thinking 25 years old, I would say, continue follow your heart, follow your passion.

[00:40:29] Believe in people. Invest in people, um, and everything else will work out. If you do that, I think invest in people, follow your heart and, um, give people respect. And one thing I try to do now that I've always tried to do. And, um, there's been times that I haven't been great at it, but I just try to respond to everybody and people email me or message me.

[00:40:50] Unless I know it's spam, or I can tell it's been templated and they get my name wrong, or the company wrong. Then I give myself a pass sometimes. But for the most part, if somebody is taking the [00:41:00] time to write me a personal message, I think it's important to respond to them. So I really try to take the time to do that.

[00:41:08] And, and I would tell my 25 or self 25 year old self that to respond to everybody that emails you or messages you in some way, shape or form. Um, she, yeah, it just goes back to investing in people. Yeah. I think that, uh, 25 rules typically not under huge generalization, but. Don't really understand the power of networking.

[00:41:30] And I always try to reinforce that, like you say, it's the relationships, you know, it's, everything is a relationship and you, you can't look at a relationship and expect with an expectation. But you know, that, that you want something from that relationship, you have to build relationships and know that it will this idea of reciprocity.

[00:41:50] It, it happens. It might not be today. It might not be tomorrow. It might not be a year from now, but when you build relationships, it's an ebb and flow of this idea of [00:42:00] reciprocity, which I think makes for a great life. Quite frankly. Absolutely does. One last thing I'll add is this idea of imposter syndrome.

[00:42:09] And I spoke about it on, on another podcast, but I think it's something that maybe not a lot of people talk about, but experience as well. And I've talked to a lot of people who've gone through that feeling of, of improv. And I never knew what it was and somebody. Mentioned the term to me. And as I looked into it, it's something I definitely dealt with in my career, especially when I became COO in the early days of not having all that.

[00:42:31] Self-confidence and it's kind of that feeling of you're in this position of power and you almost feel like you. Trick somebody and you're in this position. And what if people really found out that you don't know what you're talking about? You don't know what you're doing, which isn't the case, obviously, but there's, there is a, it's a real imposter syndrome is real.

[00:42:50] And I think a lot of people deal with it and it comes out of this idea of not having that self-confidence sometimes that you should have, and you've got into a position for a reason, [00:43:00] by doing all those other things over the years, by investing in people and following your heart and. Being skilled in your craft, but still you get in this position of power sometimes.

[00:43:09] And that self doubt can kick in a little bit and really affect you. I think it's important to understand it when it happens, um, and work through it and know it's okay. And then a lot of successful people have dealt with the imposter syndrome and you know, it it's okay. And work through it and carry on.

[00:43:25] You're right. It's, it's a big issue. And a lot of people think that it applies mostly to women and it does in a lot of cases, it does, but it's not gender specific. It's, it's specific to a human being. If you've got a pulse, you're probably going to experience imposter syndrome at some point in time in your life.

[00:43:46] Yeah, and you're right. People don't realize it's, it's a thing. It really is a thing. Um, I had a guy that worked for me once who, uh, I had given an opportunity to take on more responsibility and I knew [00:44:00] he absolutely was 100% capable of it, but because he didn't have the stuff. Specific skills needed or didn't have that, you know, the specific path that he needed to experience didn't feel comfortable with it and was starting to feel a little bit of imposter syndrome.

[00:44:16] And then when he did some research on it and we had a conversation about it, it was a huge realization. It was like, Oh my gosh, this really, this really is a thing. Yes, it is. Uh, you have to, you have to rewrite the narrative in your head and push through it. I think, to be able to push past it. No, and I think it makes you that much stronger and just having the self-awareness sometimes to identify it and work through it and itself helps you reassure yourself why you're in the position you're at anyway, you know, because you do have that internal checklist of things that you're, you're constantly holding yourself accountable to.

[00:44:53] And it's by understanding and doubting yourself a little bit is okay. A little bit, right. It's okay. [00:45:00] To, to. Expect more out of yourself, but don't let it control you and don't let it ultimately affect you personally, or to a point where it's affecting your performance. Yeah. These stories that we tell ourselves in our heads often lead to limiting beliefs and one, uh, one area that that manifests is in the area of, um, elite performance high-performance athletes.

[00:45:24] And this is something I've been studying a lot recently. And I was thrilled to hear you talk about that because obviously that was a big part of. Your business, you're dealing with these high performance athletes and I've asked many of them and a Navy seal that I had on the show a few months ago, when that story kicks into your head, that forms a limiting belief that says I can't go any further.

[00:45:47] You know, I can only run this. I can only jump this high. I can only do this. Right. I don't see myself, you know, in a, a world class sports team or whatever the situation is. I've asked them, [00:46:00] what is it, how do you break through that in your head? Cause we're all dealing with it at some level. Um, from your experience, what have you learned from these high-performance athletes to, to help really break through those limiting beliefs?

[00:46:15] The biggest thing is just when you realize everybody deals with it and even the highest performing athletes or individuals deal with that at some point in their career. And I think just that in itself, when you know, you're in the presence of others of great to also deal with that, it, it helps gives you a little bit of confidence that you can get through it by just knowing that everybody deals with it.

[00:46:37] And I think that was the biggest part of it, but how you deal with that is the important part. And it's true. I mean, the, your inner dialogue can really tear you apart if, if you allow it to, so you really need to be cognizant of it. You, you need to be aware of what that inner dialogue is and how you're speaking to yourself.

[00:46:53] That's how you speak to other people, but how you speak to yourself and having that self-awareness to understand what that inner dialogue [00:47:00] is, is a big part of rewriting. It. Because I don't think a lot of people often take the time to listen to themselves. And what they're saying to themselves about themselves, once you can, can become aware of that rewrite, maybe what that, that dialogue is.

[00:47:15] Um, that's a, that's a big step by far knowing, knowing that everybody deals with it helps you feel a little better about, um, knowing it's you're going to get through it. That's exactly it, Todd, it's about knowing that you can retrain your mind and you can rewrite this narrative. That's running in your head.

[00:47:35] It's knowing that you and only you have the power to do that. And I think it took me many, many years to realize that I could do that. And even recently, as recently, as a few years ago, I had told myself for decades that I was not a runner. I'd never run anywhere. I was not an athlete. I just wasn't that athletic type of person.

[00:47:58] Right. And, [00:48:00] uh, I ran my first 5k because I had, I had to, I had to tell them myself it's okay, you're not going to die. It's okay. You know, you can do this, but I had to push through a lot of limiting beliefs that had been in my head for decades and that. You know, it's a simple example, but it taught me that I have the power to do this.

[00:48:24] I have the power to rewrite any of these narratives and stories that are running around in my head. And I can be absolutely anything I want to be, which is probably, you know, one of the reasons that I started down this path of, I no longer want to be in this particular corporate role. I want to be helping other people.

[00:48:44] Become better leaders and create high-performance work teams. Right. And so, you know, here we are, you did it. You figured it out. Thanks ducks. So let's talk about this. Let's go back to your, your tombstone, um, idea. And [00:49:00] I want to put that question to you. So what is your legacy Todd? Well, that's a, that's a deep one.

[00:49:07] Um, I think my, my legacy is first and foremost, I want to be the best father husband. I can possibly be that to me. That's that's number one and that's non-negotiable for anything. But I think it's beyond that. It's, um, it's the relationships and the ability to understand people and help bring out the best in people I possibly can by investing in them, getting to know them and helping.

[00:49:36] Helping them build a roadmap to become better human beings themselves. And you're embarking on a new chapter in your life. So I have to ask the obvious question. Why was you leave the CMO position at GoPro? Yeah. I think a lot of people looked at me a little sideways in the middle of a pandemic, you know, that I, um, [00:50:00] laid myself off more or less.

[00:50:01] We went through a restructuring as a lot of organizations had to go through during this pandemic. Um, and as I was putting. Together what a new org would look like. Um, within marketing a GoPro, uh, based off a restructuring, I kept looking at my name and thinking of myself as, as a CEO and what I would do if I was CEO of the organization, again, putting legacy aside and, and how long I've been with the organization and all success.

[00:50:29] I've had just thinking about it from a business perspective. To me, it was very clear that it didn't make sense for me to stay. Um, and, and I think a lot of it was because I felt very strong, the team that I had built over the last 10 years and their ability to, to carry the torch, moving forward. There's a lot of trust I had in, in that team.

[00:50:49] So that along with just after a decade, I'm, I'm ready to take everything I've, I've learned and apply it elsewhere. It just felt like the right time for, [00:51:00] for a lot of reasons, kind of taken a little time off. To just recalibrate myself, um, and start thinking about what's next and had a lot of great conversations, but again, I'm going to, um, continue to follow my heart and be very picky about what that next opportunity is or opportunities are.

[00:51:19] So if it's consulting advisory opportunities or another full-time role, uh, leading a team elsewhere, I'm kind of open-minded, but I'm going to be very picky about what, what that thing or things are. So I'm excited. Obviously, that's a courageous decision to, uh, to leave a company after 10 years. However, I, I believe that there's a skill that you develop when you move from company to company.

[00:51:47] I'm not talking about, you know, every five minutes, but you, you have to learn to. To read a different culture of a new company and to assimilate into that culture [00:52:00] and take what you've learned, you know, from different companies and put that into play. I often find that people who stay with one company for their entire career miss out.

[00:52:10] Yeah. On that opportunity. And I, I'm speaking from my own personal experience and I've moved from company to company over the years and I've enjoyed every minute of it. And each company has been different and this, this, uh, skill that I've developed to be able to sort of take the pulse of. The company, you know, when, when you, you start with a new company, I love that.

[00:52:34] I've really enjoyed all of that. And I think that, you know, if, if you don't make some moves, you're not, you're not going to get that. So I think, I think that there's a great future ahead of you somewhere who knows where it's going to take you. And I can't wait to see what's next for Todd Ballard, because I truly.

[00:52:55] Believe that you are 100% and authentic leader [00:53:00] and you are a leader with gravitas. There's no question. Oh, thank you. I appreciate the kind words and yeah, I'm very excited to see what's next. And like you said, I, I agree. It's, it's very easy to, um, get comfortable and complacent within an organization. I mean, I, I had a great.

[00:53:21] Gig great job. I lived five minute drive from my office. Um, and it was, you know, so many reasons on paper, why I shouldn't have done what I did, but again, my, my heart told me different and, um, the idea of getting to know a new business and getting to know new people and. Um, apply a lot of these things I've learned over the years, somewhere else, uh, is really exciting to me and I think will be very rewarding.

[00:53:51] So yeah, I'm, um, I'm looking forward to, to whatever that might be. I th I think it will. I think the future is very bright indeed. And it has [00:54:00] been an absolute pleasure having you on the show and sharing your leadership insights with our audience. Thank you, Todd. Thank you. Appreciate it. If you enjoyed listening to this podcast and you found something of value that will help you on your quest for your gravitas, then please share with your friends and colleagues and subscribe.

[00:54:24] Visit us at gravitas, detroit.com to find out more.