Meet Kristy Fercho, Head of home lending at Wells Fargo & Chair of Mortgage Bankers Association

[Transcript]

[00:00:00] welcome to the finding gravitas podcast brought to you by gravitas Detroit, looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding gravitas is the podcast for you. Gravitas as the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in it's an irresistible force, encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership.

[00:00:26] Join your podcast, host Jan Griffis, that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales entrepreneur leadership, coach keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry. As she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for gravitas.

[00:00:49] Jan: [00:00:49] In this episode, you'll meet Christy. a very special person and most definitely an authentic leader who exudes warmth, [00:01:00] competency and connection. From the moment you meet her, you know, she's the real deal in her words. She'll tell you, I am unapologetically me. There's a unique presence that she has. We'll explore what all this means and more let's get into it and continue our quest to find gravity.

[00:01:28] My guest today is a woman. It has been described as the most influential woman in the mortgage industry and a vital force in shaping the state of sustainable home ownership in America. That's quite a mouthful. She is also the vice chair in 2020 of the mortgage bankers association, amongst many other titles and honors and awards that she has received.

[00:02:00] [00:02:00] She is more importantly, an authentic leader. And how do I know this? You've only got to look at the comments that she receives on social media and talk to people in her workplace and people that she has worked with previously to know that this woman knows. What gravitas is and is truly an authentic leader.

[00:02:28] She is Christy executive VP and president of mortgage banking at Flagstar bank. Christie. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. It's great to have you here. So, Christie, I mean the most influential woman in the mortgage industry, that's quite something, but let's talk about.

[00:02:52] You personally, what's your story? How did this all happen?

[00:02:57] Kristy: [00:02:57] Yeah, it's a little overwhelming. All of it actually. Um, [00:03:00] I come from really humble beginnings. I mean, I was born in Compton, California, um, kind of the second of four children to attract coach and a stay at home mom. Uh, my father, um, actually received the.

[00:03:14] Head coaching job at the university of Arizona when I was four years old. Um, and the distinction in that with he was named the first black head coach at a major university. So we traversed from Compton, California, which was 99.9, 9% black. To Tucson, Arizona, which was 99.9, 9% white, um, and grew up there, uh, in Tucson, uh, going back and forth between Tucson and California.

[00:03:42] And so I traverse both of those worlds and that's such an important part of my upbringing because I think it really shaped, um, this adaptability of going back and forth between, uh, those two environments. Um, I also think being the daughter of a track coach, you know, I tell people my parents. [00:04:00] Um, didn't raise boys and girls, they just raise kids.

[00:04:03] And so they encouraged us to do whatever we wanted to do. So I played football, I raced motocross. Um, you know, I just did anything that, that we wanted to do. My parents really encouraged that. And, you know, as a track coach, um, my father, you know, they raised us more coaching us. Like my dad would his athletes, uh, versus raising children.

[00:04:26] So I've actually no memories of him. Parents ever telling me, no, I couldn't do something. It was always, everything had confident or everything had consequences and they really just encouraged us to kind of be our best self. So I grew up, um, really without limits, um, without any boundaries being placed on me, whatever I wanted to do, my parents encouraged me to do it.

[00:04:49] And so it really helped as I grew up and I tried different things. Um, again, there was no such thing. Thing is failure in my house. It was only just learning different ways [00:05:00] or better ways to do it the next time. And so that was a freedom really growing up with that type of environment and encouragement, just to be your best self again, I think one of the things that comes with being raised by a track coach is, um, that the limit is only on yourself, right?

[00:05:17] In track. It. All about your personal best, can you better your personal best? And so I also did grew up not thinking about kind of competition versus others. It was always about how do I be my best self and so that as I, as I grew and went into the corporate environment, That really shaped kind of who I was, because I didn't think about other people as kind of competition.

[00:05:41] I wanted the best for them and wanted them to do their personal best cause I was going to be my personal best. And so as I graduated from college, I went to the university of Southern California. I was a finance undergrad and came out of. Uh, college. I started at Baxter healthcare, actually selling hospital [00:06:00] supplies.

[00:06:00] Um, so I did that for a couple of years, then moved into sales management, moved into human resources, um, and then left Baxter after six years, uh, moved into Pepsi. So the Frito-Lay division initially if Pepsi, um, but eight and a half years there, um, all in human resources actually. Uh, and then that journey took me to.

[00:06:20] PepsiCo headquarters in New York. And I was there during nine 11 and, uh, I think like many people after nine 11, you know, I was contemplating kind of what was the meaning of life and, um, you know, I decided it wasn't right. Selling chips and soda for the rest of my life. And I started researching companies that could balance this workaholic DNA that I had with this altruistic need to give back and have my life have some meaning.

[00:06:48] And I researched three companies, um, Disney, because that was in California. No, I need to get back home to family, the red cross, and then Fannie Mae. And on October [00:07:00] 11, 30 days later, a head Hunter called about a job at Fannie Mae. And I don't believe in coincidences. I believe my life is divinely orchestrated.

[00:07:08] And so I took the call and interviewed with Fannie Mae and got the job. So you had, you had identified Fannie Mae as a target company and had not approached them. And then out of the blue critical, she out of the blue, 30 days later, a recruiter called me. Yeah. I had run into a lady at a conference, um, years earlier, the executive leadership conference and she worked for Fannie Mae and she just talked about what an.

[00:07:32] Credible company. It was, and this, um, very mission oriented company and just, I'd never met someone who was so excited about who they worked with and it just stuck with me. And so fast forward, four years later, when I was contemplating, what I wanted to do, Fannie Mae came to mind from that experience with that young lady and just started researching and understanding what they did.

[00:07:57] And then out of the blue, the head in her called me [00:08:00] on October 11th. Yeah. I know I'm pretty extraordinary. So, um, I took the job at Fannie Mae and went in as the head of HR, supporting the single family business and, um, just did some great work there. It ended up being 15 years, five of it in human resources.

[00:08:18] And then I got the opportunity to move into a line business, which is a very rare transition from a lot of HR folks moving from HR into actually running the business. Um, had great mentors and support there that enabled me to do that. And so moved into running the business and, um, or having the line position there and did that for 10 years until 2017.

[00:08:42] When I left and joined. Uh, Flagstar bank. And so it's been a little over two years now since I've been at Flagstar and, uh, coming in as the president of mortgage, you know, really this opportunity to take really a career's worth of kind of learnings and experience in different industries [00:09:00] and really apply it into, um, I think one of the greatest gifts, uh, which is helping people.

[00:09:06] Well achieve the American dream of home ownership. And so it's incredibly fulfilling having a job in leading a team, uh, where we get to help people realize their dreams. And so it's, it's been an incredible kind of journey so far, but super excited about it. I love the fact that your father was a coach.

[00:09:24] Yeah. So this idea of looking at your individual potential and not being so concerned about what others are doing, that's clearly something that you've really taken on board with your leadership style. And I think it's something that we struggle with in corporate America. Today. Right. We're often concerned about what others think of us, and we must look better than the other person in the boardroom.

[00:09:52] Um, it's gotta be hard for you when you're faced with an environment where you see that culture playing out, what [00:10:00] people are concerned with the competition. How do you handle that? How do you stay true to yourself? And what you know is the right way to lead when. Perhaps you're surrounded by others who don't share the same philosophy.

[00:10:10] Sure. Actually, it's very hard for me at all because it's who I am. I am. And so I, um, what I try to do in my leadership is really understand each individual and who they are. So what are their strengths? What are their opportunities? What are their gifts? And how do I really bring that to the team? And I try to be conscious as I build the team, I have a big matrix actually of my team and what their strengths and what their opportunities are.

[00:10:36] And as I go and feel open positions, I try to be intentional, not only about what do I need for that position, but what does the team need as a whole, to be able to really lead the organization in the way that we they do. And so I really believe in complimentary skills. I really believe in. Kind of bringing each individual's kind of best self to the work that we have to [00:11:00] do and really encouraging that.

[00:11:02] And I do think to your point, you know, there is an expectation, especially in corporate America, about how people, you know, engage or how people show up or certain way to act or be, um, that was really prevalent. When I worked at Pepsi, you know, they used to say, Call it Pepsi pretty. I mean, there was a profile at Pepsi and you had to meet that.

[00:11:22] And the most successful people did, um, at black star, there was not a kind of that profile if you will, but it is about really understanding what each individual what's their role in, what, what are they required to bring? And then what's their uniqueness that they bring to the role. And then as a leader, trying to get that best out of them.

[00:11:42] So they could really be their best selves. And so I try to be really intentional about each individual and what they need versus what this corporate mold or expectation is. Because I believe again, the sum comes together or, you know, the parts come [00:12:00] together as the sum of the whole. And as long as we can deliver as a team on the result that the company needs at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

[00:12:09] Well, you talk about a mold. Yeah. And I have to tell you, you know, when I think about what the president of mortgage banking. For a large bank would look like I don't picture you. I honestly picture a stuffy, conservative white guy. I hate to see that, but it's true. And I, and let let's even take the, the gender and race out of it.

[00:12:35] I just, I imagine somebody who's very conservative, very buttoned up, not with this great big personality and warmth that you have. So how did you, how did you break through that mold? Yeah, it's interesting. Dave Motley, who was the past chair of the, the MBA, um, the mortgage bankers association, [00:13:00] uh, he actually said the mortgage bankers association is male pale and stuff.

[00:13:05] Dale exactly what exactly you said. Right? And he can say that he's a white male. Um, but he was really good calling the organization to the need, to embrace diversity and inclusion and half people, you know, change the complexion literally of the organization. I mean, in mortgage banking, right. 56 per or the average age of the average loan officer is 56 years old.

[00:13:32] And then when you look at the appraisers, the average age of the appraiser is 58 years old. And so, you know, if that continues to be the state of the industry and we don't get new energy and new blood in, then. Yeah, mortgage banking is headed for a rude awakening. And so, um, I am very rare looking like me and mortgage banking.

[00:13:53] Uh, it is, uh, not unusual to be the only one of me in the room. Uh, we are desperately working to change [00:14:00] that, but I think some of it goes back to my upbringing and, you know, traversing, both, you know, kind of, uh, majority black and majority white environment, my whole career. Again, my parents encouraged us to just be who we were regardless of what environment that we were in.

[00:14:18] And so breaking the mold, wasn't something I set out intentionally to do. I just, you know, showed up as, as me and ended up breaking through that. But I think it comes with being very comfortable with who I am. I. I am a black woman. And at last count, I'm the only black female leading a mortgage banking company in the country.

[00:14:40] Uh, I'm one of two blacks and one of 12 women leading a mortgage banking company. And so there's definitely a lot of work that needs to be done to, you know, diversify this industry. And there's some great work that's being done by both the mortgage bankers association. Um, Tony Thompson at Namba, you know, is.

[00:14:59] It [00:15:00] has this, uh, initiative called mission 2025. And the desire is to introduce, um, young people, millennials, and people of color into the mortgage banking industry. And I worked very diligently and talking to them and encouraging them that this mortgage banking is a great career for young people. It's still one of the only careers where you can earn a six figure salary and not be college degreed.

[00:15:25] Um, we certainly encourage college degrees, but, um, It provides just a wealth of opportunity. And as I said before, I mean, you're helping people realize their dreams. It's a noble industry in that regard. And so for me, breaking the mold is just about showing up, being my best self every day and working hard, you know, I always.

[00:15:45] Say I won't be the smartest person in the room, but I'll probably be the hardest worker in the room. Uh, this work ethic, just working hard and being diligent and doing what I need to do, um, you know, to be successful. And that has gotten me noticed, and that [00:16:00] has gotten me, um, kind of recognized and, you know, the opportunities that have presented themselves for me to, yeah.

[00:16:06] Do more and take on more responsibility. And then with that responsibility comes the responsibility of bringing others, you know, kind of along with you. And so that's what I've been intentional about by doing, as I've grown my career, really bringing others along. The journey. So we could, again, change, change what people expect of the mortgage banker, right?

[00:16:30] There is no typical mortgage banker I'm demonstrating through my leadership in the work that that we're doing at Flagstar that you don't have to do it, the mold, and you can still be successful. So, what are you doing? Can you give us some specifics? What are you doing to bring millennials and younger generation into your business to make it attractive to them?

[00:16:52] What are you doing? Yes. So at Flexera we do internships. And so we're introducing people to the [00:17:00] business and being intentional about courting those individuals. So not only we can share, they have a great experience during the summer while they're there, but then. Following up with them, encouraging them to come back the next year.

[00:17:12] So they have two years, three years under their belt before they graduate. And then because it's been such a positive experience and they think about banking and specifically mortgage banking as a career option. Um, I mentioned Tony Thompson earlier. Um, Namba and this mission 2025, you know, he is hoarding at historically black colleges, these kids and having day-long workshops, bringing them in.

[00:17:37] So at the mortgage bankers association conference, that was just in Austin. In October, he brought in a couple hundred kids. That listened to speakers. I was one of them that, you know, talked about a career in mortgage banking, what those opportunities were, and really gave them exposure to the industry and will continue to nurture that, offer those kids [00:18:00] internships so that again, they get comfortable with this is an industry that they can think of for their career.

[00:18:05] It's funny. When you talk to mortgage bankers about how do they get into mortgage banking? No one. You know, when we were growing up said, Oh, I want to be a mortgage banker. When I grow up, it's something that everyone just fell into. And with these kids, we're being intentional to say, you can choose a career of mortgage banking while you're still in college and be intentional about how to grow your career in that way.

[00:18:26] And so internships and exposure have been the two biggest ways. We've tried to do that with, with these young millennials, the NBA conference that you went to earlier in the year. I started following you on social media. And I think from our previous conversation, this is one of the first times that you've really put yourself out there on social media.

[00:18:51] And you had a series of videos and what was happening in the conference. And it was really good. I mean, it was very authentic. It was short videos, you know, it was [00:19:00] nothing, it was. Anybody would have a hard time watching, but they were very personal, you know, it was you. And, uh, I could see by the comments that were coming back, that you were clearly an authentic leader and somebody that I wanted on the show, because quite frankly, I don't want anybody on the show who just says or thinks they're an authentic leader and they're really not, but you could see the love really that's out there for you.

[00:19:27] You know, people genuinely care about you and they were thrilled to see you going out there on social media. I think w when you're in a high level position, It's often difficult to take that leap. Uh, certainly when I was growing up with my career, we were told that you keep a line between your professional life and your personal life.

[00:19:50] And that line is blurred now in this day and age, and it takes something to get over the hump, to put yourself out there, um, on social media and. [00:20:00] Put yourself in front of a camera, not just audio. Right. And just do it. So could you talk a little bit about the thought process and how, how and why you decided to get more active on social media?

[00:20:11] Yeah, so interests, she knew, and I was with Fannie Mae, um, as a senior leaders, SVPs and above. We couldn't be on social media at Fanny, uh, and coming through the housing crisis, there was a lot of scrutiny. Um, Uh, against Fannie Mae. And so we were told we couldn't be on social media and so I've never been on it.

[00:20:32] And I think times are changing and you see all of these social media influencers. And, um, I just hired a new chief of staff and head of strategic initiatives and Christy . And she is big on social media and, and we had been talking for the last. Dear about Flagstar about how to increase our social media presence in general for the company specifically for mortgage and how to put it out there.

[00:20:59] And so [00:21:00] Kristy devised an entire strategy for everyone who was going to the conference. We had 28 people going to the conference and she devised a strategy and gave each one of us a task. Every day on things that we were supposed to be doing. And so, um, I took that strategy and took it to heart. Like I do most things.

[00:21:17] If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it a hundred percent. Um, and I just put it out there and I was blown away by the response that I received. And, you know, like you said, Jan, I was just being me. I was just, you know, I had a spare moment, so I just shot a little video and posted it. And at last look, the rolling over 9,000 people that looked at that video and what's overwhelming for me is why would people be looking at the video?

[00:21:44] Um, but I think it helped me appreciate. That people do want to hear from leaders and do want to know what they're up to. And there's an enormous responsibility around that, but it was quite easy to do. And so I was just speaking from the heart. It was [00:22:00] unscripted and I'm just talking about kind of what was going on at the conference and what was going on for me.

[00:22:04] And. I enjoyed it. And the responses, as you said, I was completely overwhelmed by people's response to it. So it's something that we'll keep doing. Um, and it's something that, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward to and just really being thoughtful about, you know, what's what do people want to hear and how do I, um, create content that is interesting, that really helps advance.

[00:22:30] People's thinking not only. For the industry. Um, but in leadership in general. And so, uh, there will be more to come. It was a, it was a fine experiment, but you know, really enjoyed kind of this initial foray into social media. And so I think we'll keep going. Well, it was a great, it was a great first time being out there.

[00:22:48] Thank you. Something happened in this conference and I don't know exactly what it was, perhaps you can enlighten us, but I came across this quote. And it said that [00:23:00] you were amazing. I was moved and my well was filled with your courage, leadership and vulnerability. This is something that somebody had posted in a comment on LinkedIn.

[00:23:13] What happened? That would move somebody to write something like that. Yeah. So I was on a panel, um, empower, uh, it's a women's empowerment group, uh, part of the. Mortgage bankers association. So Mark Marsha Davies, who's the chief operating officer of the NBA. This is her brain child, and, uh, it's really created a movement of women in the mortgage bankers association.

[00:23:39] Over 14,000 women are now a part of the empower community. And the Saturday before the conference kicks off on Sunday, Marsha has an all day leadership conference for women, and there were over 500 women that attended the Saturday event. I was on the kickoff panel with a group of amazing women and Byron [00:24:00] Ballston, um, moderated the panel for us.

[00:24:02] And one of the questions he asked was what was the low point of your career? And I shared the low point in my career, which interestingly was just in 2018. It was my first full year as president of banking at Flagstar. Um, I had, after 15 years of Fannie may come into this new organization where at Fannie Mae, I had proven leadership.

[00:24:26] They had been very successful there. They knew me, they knew my style. They knew my capabilities. And here I find myself in a brand new organization that really didn't know me and the market was very challenged. We were in this rising interest rate environment. We had set a very aggressive. Budget thinking that we were going to grow the business pretty significantly, and that had gotten locked down before I arrived.

[00:24:48] And so I find myself now with this very challenging budget in a very challenging market. And we struggled all year long. We struggled being behind budget. Um, you know, [00:25:00] just struggling to find our identity and to survive in a market where it was very competitive. People were using price as a lever in driving down profitability.

[00:25:11] And we weren't as a publicly traded company at Flagstar. We weren't willing to do that. And I just talked about that struggle and that. Really struggle of confidence. It was a crisis of confidence for me having really been successful most of my career and all of a sudden now finding myself not being successful and really struggling with how to do that.

[00:25:31] And I was describing what was happening during that time to this. This group of women on the panel and the emotion that I felt back in 2018 came back to me in that moment. And I got emotional on the stage and, um, that really resonated with people to see a senior leader, not be afraid to get emotional.

[00:25:56] You know, on a big stage in front of, you know, 500 people. [00:26:00] Um, and I got emotional as I talked about it and how I worked myself through that and the support that I received from a group of amazing women that came alongside me and said, what do you need? How do we help you? And really encouraged me really at my lowest.

[00:26:14] Point. And I just shared that with the audience and I was blown away by how that resonated with people, because I don't think people experienced leaders, one being that vulnerable and certainly not in such a public way. And the outpouring of love that I received. And that, that comment is just one of them from women who I gave them permission to own their own vulnerability in that moment, but it really resonated with people.

[00:26:43] And I think when you talk about, you know, authentic leadership, that's a huge piece of it is just allowing yourself when you feel fear or when you feel anxiety or when you feel emotional. Just surrender to that and let that be. And that [00:27:00] really resonated with people. And, um, I was just telling my story and, and being me, and that's what people needed to hear and see to make it okay for them to kind of live their own journey.

[00:27:14] Vulnerability is the hallmark of authentic leadership. And that's a great example of showing others and giving others permission that it's okay to be vulnerable, but there's so much fear out there. We're afraid, particularly as women, we're afraid to show emotion, but men also, they don't want to show that vulnerability.

[00:27:36] They don't want to show that they are actually human beings and they have all these. Feelings and things that happened to them in the workplace as they do in their personal lives. How do people, what advice would you give to people to just to get over that, to break through that fear and be vulnerable and really strive for that human [00:28:00] connection?

[00:28:00] Because authentic leadership is all about human connection. How would you help people that are perhaps struggling with that right now? Yeah. Well, you said it, I mean, authentic leadership is really about connection. It's about vulnerability. It's about being who you are. And I think there is this misconception that in order to ascend to the highest levels of whatever your chosen profession.

[00:28:27] Is that you have to be perfect. And that's a fallacy. I mean, we are all as humans broken and fractured and imperfect, and that's what makes us who we are. And for leaders to be able to show that show their imperfection, show their vulnerability and show their just like everyone else. It creates a greater connection for the team because it gives others permission to really be who they are.

[00:28:55] And I say to my team all the time, I don't have all the answers. Like we're figuring this out [00:29:00] together. Like you show up and I show up and we bring a bunch of ideas together and we'll be better for it. And I think it's people want to know that people are real. People want to know that people are authentic and that's the hallmark.

[00:29:15] For me and my leadership and I was very fortunate, again, drawing up with my parents and having a track coach because my father didn't have those conceptions of corporate America because he wasn't in it. And so he didn't teach us that leadership for us or the models of leadership that I learned from watching my father lead his.

[00:29:35] Team was really about motivating them to be their best selves and understanding the uniqueness of each individual and how to bring that forward. And what's unique about all of us is again, we're these broken and fractured humans. And to the extent that we bring that imperfection to work, and that's one of the greatest gifts I think a leader can give their team is that I don't have all the answers and I don't have all that.

[00:30:00] [00:30:00] It all figured out and I'm going to make mistakes. And I hope you give me the same grace that I'll give you when you make those mistakes, but it's really encouraging each other to kind of move forward and show up as the best expression of ourselves and have that be. Accepted and received and embraced.

[00:30:22] So we can then do our best work because I think when people are pretending you hear people say, you know, all I'm one way at work and I'm a different person at home. And that's so sad to me when I hear people say that because someone's getting gypped in that. Either the home life or the work life is getting gypped from really who they are.

[00:30:42] And so I encourage people to bring their whole selves to work, whoever that is, bring it. Yeah. And we'll figure out how to best use that in the work environment, to the benefit of the goals and objectives that we need to get done for the company. And so I think that giving [00:31:00] people permission, it's just that it's just show up and be who you are.

[00:31:05] You'll be amazed at how that will be embraced and accepted. And if you have a good leader and you work for a good company, um, they will find out how to, how to embrace that and harness that to get better results for the company. Because when people show up as their true and authentic selves, that's when the organization wins.

[00:31:28] I think. And it took me several years to learn that and to feel comfortable with an authentic leadership style. And as the years went by, I got more and more comfortable with it. And one thing. That struck me actually just the other day, because as you know, I am truly, I am who I am today. Uh, all my love of ACDC and the black and red Gothic, laddering, and the branding.

[00:31:56] I mean, you know, you, you, I am exactly who [00:32:00] I was meant to be today. One thing I was looking at the other day, he was looking at my wardrobe and. They were there's two sides. They were, well, now there's one, but in my corporate life, there were two sides. There was the, the workloads and then the non workloads and the two never crossed.

[00:32:20] And because there was a mold or a persona that I thought I had to fit in the working world. And then there was who I really was outside of, outside of work. Maybe that's a bit too much of a stuck a description, but, um, and it just struck me and I thought, wow. Why, why couldn't I have just had one wardrobe?

[00:32:39] I don't know. So I think it is so important to, to step into this authenticity, not only with who you are and how you behave, but how you dress and how you show up in the workplace. It's a, it's very important. Yeah, no, I heard agree. What advice would you give to your 25 year old self [00:33:00] in today's world? Yeah, I would tell my 25 year old self.

[00:33:05] You don't know as much as you think that's so true, right? I, 25, I thought I had it all figured out. Um, and I. I am a lifelong learner. Um, again, I think this is part of my upbringing. My parents really encourage that intellectual curiosity. If we asked a question, they'd be like, I don't know, go find out. And they would seek us off, you know, back then it was the encyclopedia Britannica as we didn't have the internet, but we'd have to look it up in these big books.

[00:33:35] Um, but I was encouraged to, you know, kind of seek answers to things. And so I've always been intellectually curious. At way, but I did think I had quite a bit figured out at 25 and as I grew and aged, it was, I didn't know, half as much as I did. And so, um, you know, part of that intellectual curiosity, I think, is learned as much as you [00:34:00] can from others.

[00:34:01] Um, and, and I think the millennials nowadays. One, they have the whole world at their fingertips with the internet and Google and the world itself is so much smaller to them because of their access to information. And so I would really just encourage the 20 five-year-olds to really just fervently go after that curiosity and ever learning as much as they can, but not only.

[00:34:29] Yeah, doing the self study, but learning from other people, because the richness of experience can't be learned in a textbook or on the internet that comes by engaging with people and listening to the experiences and really figuring out then in all of that, what then works for you and then go forward and be your kind of best self with that information or craft kind of who you are and your best.

[00:34:59] Um, [00:35:00] with that message. And so that, that's what I would tell my 25 year old South. And it's, it's going to be okay. Is sitting here now at 53 years old. I know the mistakes that I have made and. The foils that I have have traversed. And, um, it all turns out okay, it's, it's those experiences and those failures and those, you know, when things didn't go quite right, that has given me the resilience to be sitting in this chair today and having the experience that, that I have had.

[00:35:35] And so it doesn't break you. It just really makes you stronger. Yeah. Well said, what's your legacy? What are you going to leave with? I'm still building it. I think I'm still building it, but, um, what I want it to be, and I want what I want people to remember me for. And I wake up every day trying to do this [00:36:00] is I'm trying to.

[00:36:03] Be my best self and leave everything that I touch better than I found it and doing it in a way that shows caring for people and really glorifies God. I wake up every day being intentional about how do I touch someone's life or make a difference in what I do and that I did it being. 100% authentically me, which is unapologetically black, which is unapologetically female, which is just unapologetically me and giving people permission to bring their whole best self and have that be okay.

[00:36:49] You said you touched somebody's life. I think that's something that's often underestimated by leaders. When you're [00:37:00] somebody's boss, you have this awesome, awesome power. Over their lives, you influence their paycheck. You influence their lives in, in a very, very deep and significant way, not just from Montreal standpoint, but you, you influence how they behave every day.

[00:37:18] You know, people can go home from work, feeling great about the work that they do and have enough energy to do what they like to do outside of work, whether it's time with their family. Or not. And the leader has that responsibility can impact that person's life. And I think a lot of people miss that fact, I sense from you that that's something that you get very, very clearly you don't underestimate that.

[00:37:43] At all for others listening to the podcast right now that are perhaps, you know, have never really thought about leadership in that term before in that way before, uh, any advice for them as they started to deal with this concept of touching a [00:38:00] life. See people, it is about seeing pupil. Um, yesterday was Thanksgiving and I got a text message from a young lady that I worked with over 20 years ago.

[00:38:14] And, um, she's still in my life through text messages and messages, but yesterday, um, she sent me a text that said, I'm. You know, so thankful for you and you will never fully understand the impact that you have had on my life. And I think of you often and fondly and, you know, wish you and your family, the baths, and the story with this young woman 20 years ago, she was a young mother.

[00:38:40] She has all grown kids now, but she was a young mother with twins. And was really struggling to balance work and life. And, uh, she was a great performer for us and I noticed how harried and distracted she was. Every time I saw her and I just sat her down one day and said, [00:39:00] What's going on with you. Like I notice I noticed you're different.

[00:39:03] What's going on with you? And she described kind of what was happening in her life at that moment. And her husband traveled quite a bit and, and I just said to her, what do you need? And she said, I love my job and I don't want to quit, but I just need some time to figure it out. And we, you know, after a series of conversations, she ended up going part-time.

[00:39:23] And she was the best part-time employee that we had. Uh, I let her work for her mom. She, she worked part time. Uh, and I, I promise I got as many full-time hours out of her, but it gave her the space that she needed to figure out how to manage her young family and figure out how to do it all be the mom she wanted to do and still contribute at work.

[00:39:49] And it was one of those things that it was just paying attention and seeing her and taking the moment to listen to what she was going on that [00:40:00] had this lifelong and lasting impact that now 20 years later, you know, she still thinks of me to send a Thanksgiving and that's all, any of us want is to be seen and to be heard.

[00:40:12] And as a leader, you have the on believable gift, but. And privilege, but also obligation to be able to see your team for who they are. And if you notice and let them know that they have worth and that you see them, um, then they will deliver results beyond measure. Not only for you personally, but for the company and what you're trying to get done.

[00:40:38] Yeah. People before the numbers, the numbers will follow for the numbers. That's a very hard philosophy for a lot of leaders to comprehend and to certainly, um, display behaviors that support that philosophy. But very, very well said. That's right. Gravitas. Is that irresistible quality? That [00:41:00] pulls people in.

[00:41:01] I, that people feel safe. People feel that the leader believes in them and wants to unlock their potential. Uh, it sounds like to me that there's a lot of gravitas to you, but if you had to summarize gravitas in one or two leadership traits, what would it be to you? Gravitas to me, um, I would say energy and light and, um, for my own leadership journey.

[00:41:30] And I think some of my gravitas, I get naturally for my stature. Uh I'm you know, five 11, and as people say I'm a commanding presence. Um, sometimes on my. Um, performance reviews, they would say, you know, force of nature is I know a lot of my performance reviews and I never understood what that meant until, um, this was in 2004.

[00:41:55] Uh, I participated in a leadership training class and, um, they [00:42:00] had a survey 20 people, 10 in our personal life and 10 in our. Uh, business life and the question we had asked three questions, but one of the questions was what shows up in the room when I do and across all 20 of those people, 17 said some combination of energy and light and.

[00:42:22] I, that really struck me. And I didn't, I wasn't aware of it until that moment, but seeing that on paper and seeing those 20 people throughout all phases of my life, put that on and it made me really think about what was that, what was I doing that had when I walked in a room, energy and light show up and it was the energy of, um, again, I'm.

[00:42:48] I'm an optimist by nature. I'm a positive person by, by nature, but that energy was walking in a room and giving that to others. I mean, energy creates an [00:43:00] electrical current, um, and I gave that to other people and, and wasn't fully aware of it until that moment. And the light really was. This belief of seeing the best in people.

[00:43:12] And by communicating that to people, we all have a story and I know what mine is, and there's ugliness in that story and there's brokenness in that story. Um, but. By God's grace, you get light. And by recognizing that we all have failures that we're ashamed of, or pieces of our story that we're ashamed of, but being able to give grace and light to people with that is something I just believe in, because I believe in redemption, I believe in forgiveness.

[00:43:44] And so being able to give that to other people, uh, is part of how I lead. And so gravitas for me is really about. Bringing energy into the room and, and making people believe that they could do things that they didn't [00:44:00] think that they could do. And then showing that, that light, that there's a better way that there's a, that there's hope for tomorrow.

[00:44:09] And that it's, uh, it's a positive way that we can all live and grow together. Thank you, Christie. I believe that today we have really explored what authentic being an authentic leader is all about. You are truly a leader with gravitas. Thank you. Thank you so much for having.

[00:44:34] If you enjoyed listening to this podcast and you found something of value that will help you in your quest for your gravitas, then please share with your friends and colleagues and subscribe. Visit us@gravitasdetroit.com to find out. [00:45:00]