Meet Kevin Browett , CEO Renaissance Media Solutions

[Transcript]

[00:00:00] Welcome to the finding gravitas podcast brought to you by gravitas Detroit, looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding gravitas is the podcast for you. Gravitas is the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in it's an irresistible force, encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership.

[00:00:27] Join your podcast, host Jan Griffis, that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales entrepreneur leadership, coach keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry. As she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for gravitas.

[00:00:52] Jan: [00:00:52] In this episode, you'll meet Kevin Browett. Kevin comes from a one red light town in Pennsylvania. He [00:01:00] Rose through the corporate ranks, experienced tremendous success and then experienced failure, and then went on to a major career pivot. His story covers toys, drugs, startups, martial arts, and a daily 3:00 AM workout routine and more.

[00:01:22] Yes, that's right. A 3:00 AM workout routine. Kevin supports the philosophy of no man left behind and practices, servant leadership in his professional and personal life. Kevin speaks openly about failure. The lessons learned from the experience and standing up in the boardroom did take the unpopular stand.

[00:01:48] Let's get into it and continue our quest to find gravitas

[00:02:00] [00:02:00] today. I'd like you to meet a man. Who has held several senior level corporate positions. He has been described as a visionary retailer. He's previously held responsibility for a P and L in excessive $18 billion, EVP of merchandising for Kmart, worldwide and corporate VP of pharmacy for CVS impressive titles.

[00:02:28] But that's not who he is. The man sitting before me today is a leader whose purpose is to unite people at a community level to make meaningful connections, his mission and purpose judging by the number of boards. That he currently is appointed to, and the work that he does with kids, kicking cancer and numerous other volunteer [00:03:00] positions that he's involved with.

[00:03:02] This is a man who is committed to serve others, which is after all the hallmark of an authentic leader. So please welcome to the show today. Kevin Broward, Kevin is managing partner and COO of Renaissance media. The publishing arm foreseen magazine, which is a local Birmingham and Bloomfield, Michigan publication.

[00:03:30] Uh, for those of us in the audience that are perhaps outside of Michigan, I think it's important that everybody knows that, but maybe everybody's going to Google the scene now. Right. Great. So Kevin,

[00:03:39] Kevin: [00:03:39] welcome to the show. The you Jan, appreciate you having me today.

[00:03:44] Jan: [00:03:44] So what's your story, Kevin?

[00:03:47] Kevin: [00:03:47] Well, I think, yeah, as I listened to you introduce me, I think back on how I grew up and I grew up in Western Pennsylvania in a very small one red light town.

[00:03:59] And I [00:04:00] think a lot of the things I do today, uh, to put it in simplistic terms was how I was raised. You know, it's, it's, it's natural, uh, taking care of people, looking out for people. Um, everyone where I grew up in McDonald, Pennsylvania was, uh, out to really help each other. So a neighbor would help a neighbor, you know, uh, a friend would help a friend, you know, it was just the nature of the environment I grew up with.

[00:04:27] So even to this day, my mom still lives in the same house my father was born in. So we all really looked out for one another. And that was just how I was. I was raised as a person to really care for other individuals. And. You know, if you had to be asked for help, it was almost an insult, uh, you know, you really look to help your neighbor and help each other.

[00:04:50] So, um, and, and it was, uh, the steel mills, the coal mines when I grew up and, you know, a lot of people were very dependent on each other just to survive. [00:05:00] So I think that that was instilled in me in a very early age.

[00:05:04] Jan: [00:05:04] How did you go from a small town to, uh, these, you know, pretty significant roles in corporate America?

[00:05:12] How did that happen?

[00:05:13] Kevin: [00:05:13] You hear the stories about things happening for a purpose. And, uh, I was, you know, uh, very involved in high school and a great athlete. And, uh, I wrestled played football. I was president of my high school. So whenever I was ready to graduate, I was given all these opportunities with different scholarships for athletics.

[00:05:36] And then, uh, school Duquesne university showed up and offered me an academic scholarship to go to school. And that's how I ended up in pharmacy school in Pittsburgh, uh, and very unique in that. Um, it was a private Catholic university offering me a chance to have a full ride academic scholarship. You gave me this wonderful education, but [00:06:00] again, kind of instilled in me like these give back beliefs, you know, that we're part of the culture of the school.

[00:06:08] And from that, uh, I became a pharmacist and as I became a pharmacist, how I ended up as a. Corporate executive was, they assigned me at a company called people's drug stores and they put me in the, what they called the company store. And I would manage the store, manage the pharmacy, but they come these store men, everybody that they wanted to showcase the company would come through that store.

[00:06:34] And one day I got this call from a gentleman and I bring up his name because he became a mentor to me, Jack Hamlin. And he said, we're going to have a. Position for a corporate director of human resources. And I would like you to apply for that job. And my first reaction was I'm a pharmacist. I miss store manager.

[00:06:56] I certainly don't know anything about human resources, why me [00:07:00] and the answer was because you are the kind of person that we want. In our company, you represent a culture that we believe is good for our organization, and we want somebody like you to be able to go out and find other people like you to bring to our company.

[00:07:18] So I applied and, uh, lo and behold, I became the corporate director of human resources for peoples', which later was acquired by CVS drug stores. And, um, you know, that's how I started my executive path, you know, and at that point I believe I was probably. 27 years old, 26 years old, very young, and only a few years out of college.

[00:07:42] Your

[00:07:42] Jan: [00:07:42] mentor, when he told you that he wanted more people like you in the company. I did. Do you, and did you understand at the time what that meant in terms of culture or was it just, Hey, this is great. He likes me. Let's go.

[00:07:57] Kevin: [00:07:57] And it's a great question. And I honestly [00:08:00] didn't and when I, when I got into the office, um, I.

[00:08:04] Well tell people I was scared to death. I mean, I can remember the first few months that I felt, am I going to fail? I don't know what I'm doing. I need to learn. And I remember Jack Jack was an ex Marine. So, you know, when you saw him and met him, it was kind of like a tough guy. And yet when you sat with him, he would be like, you've got this, Kevin, your leader, you really are excited about what you do.

[00:08:33] You talk about the little things that make us different. You talk about the people interaction that when you come into the store, people care about you. The pharmacist cares about you, the things that are important to people, and that's what we want. We want people that really focus on people. And he, he taught me something that I used my entire career.

[00:08:54] Which was, he said, do you think when people get excited [00:09:00] about their job, it's because they get a bonus or they get something else. And he said, it's really when they get something else. And he said, the something else is remember to always leave a little note, a little, like thank you card. And handwrite it out and keep it very personal.

[00:09:20] And trust me, that will mean more to the person than a bonus check. And he was right. I was surprised all through my career that, you know, people always like to get rewarded with bonuses and financials because they can take that back to their family and that's meaningful. But the things that always made the team become more of a team was whenever I would leave.

[00:09:43] Like, you know what. I saw what you did and it was amazing. And, and without you, we could never succeed. And that little personal handwritten note and every Christmas, even as, even in my big jobs, like at Kmart, I always hand wrote at the end of the year, a [00:10:00] personal note to every last employee. Because I just thought it was important for people to hear from me, the little story that I remembered about them, the little special thing that they did that I recalled.

[00:10:12] And it was like, you know, I can't believe he's doing all these things. And yet he remembered that one moment in time and that motivated everybody to just want to do more of that.

[00:10:23] Jan: [00:10:23] It's about making those personal connections. And, uh, that goes to building trust and safety and security, emotional and psychological security.

[00:10:35] We know from project Aristotle that Google ran in 2012. The number one factor for high-performing teams is psychological. Safety. And I think often we forget that it's those little things like writing that personal note really helps bond and make that connection with people. They feel safe and then they, they feel inspired and they feel that they will go out [00:11:00] there and go that extra mile.

[00:11:02] Um, I'm surprised, I think to hear that that came from a Marine. Uh, but as I'm, as I'm saying that, you know, maybe, maybe I'm not, because when you think of a Marine, you think of somebody that's aggressive and barks out orders, but at the end of the day, it's about taking care of everyone. On the team. That's what the Marines are known for.

[00:11:23] Right? No man left behind something like

[00:11:25] Kevin: [00:11:25] that. And that's exactly right. And that was really the way he, he managed as an executive. That's what I learned that you really are. Team member. And in a lot of ways, you're not an executive, you're a coach. You're, you're part of the team. You're helping everybody get better, but you're also bringing the players together and you're there to mentor them.

[00:11:48] You're there to help them be more successful and it, you inspire each other, but. You said a key word. It's also trust. It's like, you know, any relationship, you know, it's built around. If you [00:12:00] trust your partner, if you trust the player next to you, if you trust your teammates, then you're going to go out and say like, I know if I do this, they're going to do that.

[00:12:09] And as a leader, as an executive, I want my team to always know, okay, I'm also going to do my part. I'm here to serve you. I'm here to help you be successful. You rely on me. I'm not gonna let you down. Uh, and, and in turn, they don't want to let me down.

[00:12:27] Jan: [00:12:27] So all of these things are traits of an authentic leader.

[00:12:31] And as you progressed with your career, when you were at the highest point, I'm sure that there were others on the executive team that perhaps did not employ the same leadership style. How do you manage to stay true to your authentic self and employ that leadership style when others around you are not,

[00:12:54] Kevin: [00:12:54] uh, again, a great question.

[00:12:56] And I'll give you an example of, um, [00:13:00] You know, when I was in one of my biggest roles. And I remember I was in a very different culture that I was again, being asked to help change and, and was making progress by building my team at Kmart and the divisionals. Uh, one of the things I did there was I brought the divisionals together and, and indicated, uh, when I talked to them, I said, What would you tell me your job is?

[00:13:25] And they would say, my job is divisional vice president of merchandising for toys or divisional vice-president for electronics, or, you know, they define themselves as a divisional VP and then whatever the category was. And I said, well, how about we start talking about your. Position is the president of the largest toy company in the country or in that time, it was the second largest toys.

[00:13:51] R us is number one. And you're the president of the second largest toy company in the world. And that [00:14:00] change in idea or mentality helped them think about themselves differently. Help them have they're a different kind of self-esteem. Steam, and also began to see the them react differently in the corporate headquarters that I'm, you know, I'm part of a team, but I'm also leading one of the largest organizations in the world.

[00:14:20] So one is helping those individuals change how they think about themselves and see themselves, you know, so that you get some of that adapting. The other thing though, and sad to say, I was in one meeting where I was presenting to. A board and I was laying out a five-year strategic plan and there was a senior executive that asked me, so why did I think I was successful?

[00:14:46] And my answer was going to be well because I was able to build this team of, of great executives around me. And give them a vision of where they could lead their [00:15:00] organizations and help them be successful. And in, and before I could even say that, uh, the answer was well it's because I brought you here and everybody knows it and they're going to do whatever you say.

[00:15:14] And obviously. Yeah, it was a little bit of an embarrassment because I didn't believe that. And too, I also didn't politically want to be wrong in the meeting and like, just be an, uh, you know, kind of, uh, less then professional let's say in my answer, but before I could even answer that chief financial officer and the head of it stood up and defended me and said, this guy is.

[00:15:42] All over the building, communicating with all of us, getting us all involved in what he's doing, helping us be successful. Plus asking us to help him be successful in his team. And that's why we're starting to see a change here. So it's it. The answer to your [00:16:00] question is you have to go out and almost engage people to be on your team and have them be part of it.

[00:16:08] So it's not me against the world. It's us coming together to be more successful. Yeah.

[00:16:14] Jan: [00:16:14] Not much ego there. How seeing that? Uh it's because I brought him in and everybody's basically afraid of you and afraid to offend him. Um, fear and intimidation runs rampant,

[00:16:27] Kevin: [00:16:27] right? And you see a lot of that in some of the, you know, probably why I enjoy some of the startups and some of the smaller companies is because there's an opportunity to be much closer with all your people.

[00:16:40] And there's also the ability that it's less ego it's really. How do we just win together? I mean, at the end of the day, I don't really care. What somebody's role is. It's really, how are you helping the whole group be successful if the whole group successful, guess what? You're, you're going to be successful at the end of the day?

[00:16:59] I mean, [00:17:00] I always say when I have meetings and I'm surrounded by my team, I want to be like, The dumbest person in the room, because I really want to have the smartest people around me. And if I do, I'm going to be wildly successful at the end of the day, because I know they're going to do the job better than anybody.

[00:17:18] And I think a lot of leaders for years were intimidated by the idea of having really smart people around them. And I always disagree with that. Why. Uh, you want the best players on your team. You want the best players on the field, you know, you're recruiting for the best. Why wouldn't you do it with everything in, in your job?

[00:17:37] You know?

[00:17:38] Jan: [00:17:38] There was a leadership model that said, as a leader, you should be at the head of the table. You should be the one saying exactly what the agenda is. You would control the meeting, you would control the input. You would allow some input from other people, but you're expected to make the decision and showing that perhaps you were wrong or you wanted to consider the opinion of others.

[00:17:57] Might've been considered weak. In fact [00:18:00] that it was, it was considered a weakness. And I remember, you know, early on in my career, if I was making a decision, even though I knew it was wrong, I would never show that it was wrong because it would be considered weak, but fast forward. And in my last corporate position, I have made decisions that were.

[00:18:19] Wrong. And I am not afraid to sit in front of a group of people and admit, this was not the best decision. You know, let's go to plan B, let's do something different. And when you show that level of vulnerability, You show people that it's okay to make a mistake. And again, they feel safe. So they will take risks.

[00:18:38] They will step out there in a way that perhaps they wouldn't have done if they didn't feel safe. And now we get closer to innovation because if people don't feel safe, they will not take the risks, the trial and error that we need to really nurture innovation. So I think there's, there's a lot there. Uh, to be said about how you lead [00:19:00] and making sure that you surround yourself with the smartest people and you really listen to them and give them the safe environment so that they can speak up.

[00:19:08] Kevin: [00:19:08] Well, you hit it. You hit a, a big topic for me. When people ask me, they say like, where were some of your learnings in your career? And I think I always surprised them. When I talk about, I started a company called Madmax as well. Well, as part of my career were healthcare superstores and I opened 17 of them over the course of four years, we went from non-existing company to $35 million and 300 employees and it failed.

[00:19:37] At the end of the day. And, uh, and when I look back on that, people will say like, how does that make you feel? And I said, well, certainly I'm I'm I feel bad that I failed, but also feel good that I failed because what I learned in the felling experience was something that makes me so much better as an executive.

[00:19:57] When I look at everything, I learned that. [00:20:00] As good as I believe I am that being the chairman of a board and also being the president of a company running the day-to-day operation was a mistake. I couldn't politically manage a board and run a company day in and day out that that was an air. And if I did it again, I would do it very differently and I would make sure I recruited a great chairman of the board.

[00:20:22] That was my partner or vice versa, but. I wouldn't do both, you know, so I learned that also learned you don't take every investor that says they want to invest in your company is not necessarily a good thing. You know, some investors don't have the same beliefs as you have. And sometimes saying no in any business is an okay decision as well, but I would never have learned that if I hadn't failed.

[00:20:48] And so now, like starting same magazine is another good example. I started seeing it was out in the public where I live, where I have to go to stores, restaurants, you [00:21:00] know, go to school. And if it failed, everybody would know it fail. If it won, everybody would know it won. So every decision I made was publicly out there, you know, cause it came in the mail as a magazine every month it was on a website.

[00:21:15] So I was very aware that, you know, was there a risk there, but I was very confident that we would be successful. We tweak it. And at the end of the day, the success was going to come from getting the right people in the right seats and let them. Do their job and get out of their way. And that's exactly what we've done and that's why we've become successful, but it was all tied to success, failure, success, picking the right people.

[00:21:42] And it really all plays to

[00:21:44] Jan: [00:21:44] well, seeing, as we all know, people that live in this area is wildly successful, but let's go back a little bit and talk about that major pivot to go from this. High-level executive corporate job where you had all the trappings [00:22:00] of a, an executive, um, to. To pivot and start this magazine.

[00:22:06] Tell us a little bit about that process. What was going on in your

[00:22:09] Kevin: [00:22:09] head? Uh, you, you again have hit a nail on the head here because I was very young. Uh, I, I just turned 40 and I had this massive job running $18 billion and I loved it at the same time. I hated it. And I hated it because, um, There were certain things that I really just wanted to do and be able to do.

[00:22:33] And I would do, but to your earlier point, a lot of people would see that as you know, you're in a corporation, you should be following the rules. And it's like, well, what if the rules are really not the right roles? You know? And you know, there's a better way to do it just because it's, it's a bureaucracy doesn't mean falling.

[00:22:51] The bureaucracy is always the best way to get results. And that bothered me quite a bit. And then the [00:23:00] other part was there were corporate decisions being made all the time. You, you know, I would leave the office and come back. And all of a sudden, somebody that worked for me had been fired and a new person hired.

[00:23:11] And I didn't even know who they were. And it was because it was somebody's favorite person or they didn't like somebody. And it was like, that's not how I run things. That's not me. And I can remember right before Thanksgiving sitting in a big corporate meeting. And everybody was going around the room, explaining how we were going to turn the company around by the end of the year.

[00:23:35] Okay. It's Thanksgiving. And for us, the, the fiscal year was the end of January. So we're literally talking 60 days away from the end of the year. And I listened to all these executives, like here's, what's going to happen by the end of the year. Here's what's going to happen by the end of the year. Like everything's going to be great.

[00:23:52] Yeah. And then I was the last one to talk. And I'm sitting there and they asked me and I [00:24:00] said, here's my answer. I just came back from ordering Halloween for next year. So I'm one year out and I've already placed the order for Halloween. I just got back from the orient where I plan the Christmas themes and everything we're going to do for three years from now.

[00:24:20] So my answer to your question is if anybody here believes that a decision we made today, We're even going to know if it's beginning to work earlier than six months from now, doesn't know what they're talking about. And when I left, I really was called on the carpet. Because how dare I say that in front of all the executives, how there I come out and say that we were going to be in trouble as being honest.

[00:24:49] And my answer was, I worked for the shareholders in the company. And if you don't like what I'm doing. It's really easy. You can fire me. And then I went home for Thanksgiving [00:25:00] back to that one red light town. And I realized being in a big corporation and having to adjust say what they wanted to hear all the time was really not what I was raised to do.

[00:25:13] And so I came back and I resigned and decided, you know what, let me take a shot at being an entrepreneur. Let me go do my own thing because. I should be able to do, if I fell, I fell on my own merit. If I succeed, I succeed on my own mayor, but it's not because somebody is telling me what I have to say or not say.

[00:25:32] Jan: [00:25:32] Well, that's a, it takes a lot of courage to do that as I'm somewhat familiar with, uh, the, the interesting thing about seeing and I've seen, I've seen it grow, obviously, since I live in the neighborhood, your purpose is to unite people at community level. Can you talk a little bit about where that purpose came from?

[00:25:54] You know, now that I understand a little bit more about you, I, I, I get it, you know, it's who you are, it's in your [00:26:00] DNA, but, uh, talk to us a little bit about the purpose for scene.

[00:26:04] Kevin: [00:26:04] Uh, when, as I said earlier in the interview, the way I grew up in a one red light town, everybody. Looked out for everyone and really took care of everyone.

[00:26:14] And you knew, you knew who the local Barbara was. You knew who the local pharmacist, the doctor, et cetera. And so everybody just knew everyone. And that was part of being a small community. Uh, and one night here, when I was having dinner with some of my dear friends, I was listening to the conversation and around the table, there were doctors and surgeons and attorneys, et cetera.

[00:26:38] But the conversation was still about like, I'm really working hard to try and, you know, make it work. I'm trying to take care of my family. I'm worried about my kids and my raising my children. Right. Because a lot of the things I do are because I didn't have everything. And. Yet I've worked so hard to try and give more, you know, was it a good [00:27:00] thing or not a good thing?

[00:27:01] So I kept thinking to myself, these are, these are no different than the conversations that you would have heard in that one red light town parents worried about. Am I doing the right thing? Am I raising my children? Right. I'm really working hard. I want to give back, I want to coach the football team or the baseball team.

[00:27:21] I want to sponsor this. You know, I want to be helpful. I just want to be a good human being and it just hit me. It was like, just because we're in Michigan and we're in an affluent suburb. The stories are the same. The problem is no one's telling them. So what if I just go out and start to showcase the people in the community that are really giving back and working hard, the businesses that are really there that maybe no one hears about?

[00:27:50] Well, and if I can help raise that up so that they can I'll get better, then the whole community will get better. And that was really the. The [00:28:00] essence of why we started saying, and

[00:28:02] Jan: [00:28:02] then, uh, as if, you know, starting scene, obviously wasn't enough because in January of this year, you started Indian scene. So tell us a little bit about that.

[00:28:12] Kevin: [00:28:12] And back to the philosophy is, as we've done seen for the last five years, we've seen a lot of success with what we call hyper-local, you know, Focused on like what people in a certain community really want and appreciate. And I had some very dear friends from the Indian community and the more I spend time with them, uh, they indicated same thing.

[00:28:36] There's, there's this large Indian community here that have a lot of wonderful traditions at the same time. They want to be part of the community. And how could we help showcase for them? What. Their community is doing at the same time, the individuals within the community that are doing wonderful things.

[00:28:56] So, uh, I was lucky enough to have a wonderful [00:29:00] partner lip lips, a chef, who's the publisher, and we teamed up, we talked about it, we got a group together and we launched it. And, um, the fall is a very similar model of highlighting individuals and businesses in the Indian community.

[00:29:15] Jan: [00:29:15] It seems to me that you identify a need or you see something that, that needs to be served and you're there.

[00:29:23] You're you're right there. You're right. Yeah.

[00:29:26] Kevin: [00:29:26] It's like my DNA. I can't help myself. You know, as my wife would say, it's like, you're always like busy doing something, but you know, when people go back to little McDonald, when somebody needed something, you just show up. You know, you don't wait to be asked you to show up and you try to

[00:29:42] Jan: [00:29:42] help.

[00:29:44] It's talk about personnel accountability. I'm always proud of myself that I, I call myself an early morning workout junkie because I like the 5:00 AM workout classes. And as I was sharing this with you the other day, I started, you know, I was giggling [00:30:00] afterwards because, um, that's not, that's not early enough for you.

[00:30:03] Apparently 3:00 AM is your time. So tell me a little bit about, uh, why do you get up so early and the personal accountability psychology behind that?

[00:30:15] Kevin: [00:30:15] Um, it started as a simple thing, you know, where I, once I had children, you know, I, I loved the workout. You know, some people love to play golf. Some people love to play tennis.

[00:30:27] For me, it's always been, I just love to be in great shape. I love the workout. I like the feeling of it. Uh, lifting weights, et cetera, you know, but when I had kids, I realized. That if I wanted to still get my workouts done and have time with the family. If I waited until I got home in the evening, I was one exhausted from work too.

[00:30:48] Then, you know, how many hours do you have before you have to put your baby to bed or your child to bed? So I kept forcing myself to get up earlier and work out earlier. What I started to realize is [00:31:00] one, my head was very clear about things that happened the day before the, the solitude, the quiet. Allowed me to be in today's terminology, mindful, you know, that I was in the moment and frankly, I just automatically wake up at 3:00 AM.

[00:31:18] I mean, I'm in bed around 10 o'clock in the evening, 10 30 and I've never had an alarm wake me up. I mean, I just roll over. It's three o'clock late and I get up. And when I get up within two minutes, I'm. Go on. I do my work. I go to the basement, I do my workouts and you know, that's just it. And I feel good.

[00:31:39] And by the time I hit the office or I hit a meeting I'm already like activated and, uh, and very engaged.

[00:31:47] Jan: [00:31:47] Yeah, I can relate to that. I love that surge of energy you get from an early morning workout. It sets you up for the day. You're clear. The energy level is right and it's infectious [00:32:00] other people. You know, they, they sense that they feel that and you can change a room, the energy level that you bring into any engagement.

[00:32:07] You can change a room. It's very, very powerful. Tell me about karate.

[00:32:13] Kevin: [00:32:13] The martial arts, the black belt. Yes. Sure, sure. Uh, well, it was interesting. I was a very good wrestler and in Pennsylvania wrestling's a big sports, uh, you know, I always loved the physical contact of those types of sports and. Whenever my daughter, my youngest daughter was first going to school.

[00:32:33] My wife sat up a little mini class at Birmingham martial arts, and it would be on Fridays at three o'clock. So the kids could just go down and learn a little bit of self-discipline discipline. We're more talking about. These were when they were like five years old, six years old, long story short, I went the watch.

[00:32:53] And as I stand there watching the owner of the facility, came up to me and said, so you look like you're in pretty good [00:33:00] shape. Have you ever done martial arts? So I've wrestled I box, but no, I've never done. You know, any kind of like karate or TaeKwonDo and he's like come to a class. So I did, um, and I was older for somebody starting this.

[00:33:17] I was in my early fifties, fell in love with it, went through the whole thing for like almost seven years. Earned my black belt and started to teach there. My master was Peter malodor, who was Claude van dam's instructor. Uh, so I learned from an excellent martial artist and, um, and that. That helping people, coaching people, the discipline of it, and seeing the kids advance through the belts and get better and better, and being able to work out with them side by side.

[00:33:51] I just loved it again. I think it's just part of like being a, a coach and a team player, you know, helping them get better, you know, and encouraging [00:34:00] them to get better.

[00:34:00] Jan: [00:34:00] I had no idea. You were going to say that you pick that up later on in life. I thought you were going to say well, since I was. Five. I started doing martial arts and then I've been doing it ever since it was later in life, later in life.

[00:34:13] I did not expect that

[00:34:14] Kevin: [00:34:14] actually all my friends would, would make fun of me. They're like when we're all getting older and like we're turning, we're turning it down where we're trying to prevent injury. Kevin's out there trying to like create injuries, you know, and more smarts. And I'm like, I really did love it.

[00:34:28] I really loved it.

[00:34:30] Jan: [00:34:30] But that wasn't good enough again for you, was it, you had to take that martial arts and find a way that you could serve at a much deeper level. And I read that you are a therapist with kids kicking cancer, and that has a martial arts piece to that. Could you

[00:34:47] Kevin: [00:34:47] talk about that? It does it very interestingly, I was on the board at the community house in Birmingham and, uh, I was doing introductions one night at one of their events.

[00:34:57] And the guest speaker was [00:35:00] a gentleman that we, we lovingly refer to as rabbi G. And he was, uh, uh, the founder of kids kicking cancer. And so one of his people approached me and said, we've heard you're a black belt. And a lot of people say good things about you and how you train children. Um, would you be interested in learning about kids kicking cancer?

[00:35:24] And I went to one of the classes and observed what they did and fell in love with it. Uh, you know, in fact, I told my wife, I said, now I understand why later in life I became a black belt because I think it really was meant for me to become. Uh, martial arts therapist. So what, what kids kicking cancer did, what rabbi G did was take the philosophy of giving people a purpose and, you know, the, the, the power, peace purpose that we saying, kids kicking cancer really has to do with [00:36:00] all the children that we instruct that we help our, um, Had been diagnosed with some type of cancer or hemophilia or some disease.

[00:36:09] That's very painful. And by teaching them martial arts one, it gives them a purpose because a lot of these children have been told they can't do anything and there's no physical contact in the class, but they do learn everything just like a regular martial artist. So they give belts and the, see the change in there.

[00:36:28] Mentality and their self-esteem like, I mean, I used to tell people when I teach the class. They would actually work harder than the kids in my regular martial arts class. Like they would kick harder, they would kick keyer. And again, the only thing was they weren't smart. They weren't fighting, they weren't having any physical contact, but the meditation's of controlling your body, controlling your breathing, controlling all aspects.

[00:36:57] But then the purpose of being able to [00:37:00] achieve, you know, a belt. And get awarded higher belts just changed their whole lives and frankly it changed their family's lives, you know? So, um, I love it. I think it, it gives, you know, it gives the black belts of purpose as well.

[00:37:16] Jan: [00:37:16] Well, that's an a, it's an incredible cause let's talk about some of the other boards that you're on.

[00:37:23] Kevin: [00:37:23] Uh, I've got the great fortune. I've been on, obviously the community house, as I said in Birmingham and serve there in a number of capacities and actually help them whenever they decide to create a nonprofit foundation to support the community house. Um, I've also been on the founding board of what we call the Detroit Jewish news foundation, which, uh, we took the a hundred year history of the Jewish community and we archived it and digitized it.

[00:37:53] So now it's preserved forever. And every day we create another basic version of that as new [00:38:00] histories made. And then I had the good fortune a few years ago. I'm being asked to be part of Cranbrook's board of governors. And, uh, that's been an amazing experience because one, again, I love education. I love being able to give back to the community and I've been elected to the executive committee, chairman of the finance committee there, um, with brilliant people on the marketing committee.

[00:38:26] And then most recently I was also asked to be on right. The board of trustees and for Cranbrook schools and the finance committee there again. And then in addition to that back of my Alma mater Duquesne university, I was, it was a big honor for me because I graduated from pharmacy school there, but actually the business school came and asked me to sit on the board and actually, uh, also teach as part of the business school.

[00:38:54] And so I teach entrepreneurship innovation. Uh, change, manage [00:39:00] management and leadership in the business school there.

[00:39:03] Jan: [00:39:03] So what do you do in your spare time? Oh,

[00:39:07] Kevin: [00:39:07] to take care of my wife and my kids. So I hope, I hope they would say that,

[00:39:14] Jan: [00:39:14] uh, previous conversations, it's very clear to me that families first with you, but that's an awful lot of things you're driven by mission and purpose.

[00:39:23] It's clear, right? It's this need to serve drives you. But balancing all of that. And we know there's no such thing as work-life balance, there are decisions that you make. There are choices that you make in life and you find a way to make it happen and it goes to mindset, but that's an awful lot of, you know, board positions in companies and things that you do.

[00:39:45] So, um, if somebody's out there listening to this and they're perhaps struggling with the same kind of thing, any advice you would give to somebody who, who wants to, to give this much to other people and count, find the time.

[00:39:58] Kevin: [00:39:58] Sure. Um, and I [00:40:00] think part of this is you, you learn yourself and I have a little bit of the advantage of being able to look back and say, okay, um, what did you do?

[00:40:08] And how'd you do it? And how would you change it? And I think, you know, my advice would be first, don't be afraid to say no, because sometimes, you know, again, we. When you want to serve, you want to please people and you tend to start to say yes to everything. And if you say yes to everything, then you really are saying no to some things that are important in your life, like your family.

[00:40:30] And you have to like sit back and say, okay, if I'm going to say yes, I know I'm going to commit myself and I'm going to do really a great job. So before I do that, is this. Something that really is meaningful and going to make a difference because you're going to sacrifice something else. And if you are so worth the sacrifice, so saying no is okay.

[00:40:50] If you think about it, I think. Carving out time for your family is critical. I mean, I, I really believe that, you know, my best friend is my wife, [00:41:00] Tilly, and I need her support and without it, I would fail. So, you know, there's, there's times where we need to be together and we carve it out. And I can tell you when I'm with Tilly, I don't have my cell phone with me.

[00:41:12] It's like, I'm very like laser that this is our time and I don't want to be with anybody else nor do I want to share with anyone else. And it's the same with our daughter, Bella, you know, when I'm with her, I went, uh, it's a little things like every night when she finished his practice, I want to go and pick her up.

[00:41:31] Because that 10 or 15 minutes in the car and not having phones on and just talking to her and letting her talk to me is critical. So it's learning that, take those moments and make the most of the moments and shut out the rest of the world. You know, I mean, you don't need to have your phone with you all the time.

[00:41:50] You don't need to have a conversation and take somebody calls you up and, Oh, I've got to take this. And it's like, no, you don't not. If the, if the time was meant to be with your family,

[00:42:00] [00:41:59] Jan: [00:41:59] That's great advice. And we've talked today about many facets of leadership, both in the professional and personal realm, but let's talk about that gravitas factor.

[00:42:12] So that irresistible factor that pulls you in that as a leader, it just, you know, people are just drawn to you. And they feel safe and you're able to fully unlock all of their potential. That's the gravitas factor. What is that gravitas factor for you?

[00:42:30] Kevin: [00:42:30] Yeah, again, a great question. And a, and sometimes may be complicated and sometimes not.

[00:42:35] It's like, I think it's being genuine. It's like really being vulnerable to people. I mean, I don't have a problem letting people know I'm I don't have all the answers. I really don't. Uh, I don't have a problem letting people know that I really care about them and them as an individual. Uh, I don't have a problem saying I made a mistake.

[00:42:55] Steak, and I'm really sorry, and now we're going to solve it, you know? And, and I think [00:43:00] it's like them feeling comfortable that this is, this may be our boss. And I respect that. If you want to call me a quote, a boss at the same time, he's a real human being. He really cares about us. He's genuine. Uh, We see him when he, you know, okay, there's something wrong in his family.

[00:43:18] And he shared that with a CNO and he's told us, like, he's worried, you know, about a family member. And at the same time, he's the first one to say, how are you doing? Is your, are you okay? And, uh, I think paying, paying that kind of attention, you know, and, and people gravitate, they, yeah. They feel they can trust you.

[00:43:37] They feel like they can be vulnerable and return with you and they want to follow you because they know you're going to be right there with them back to the military example, your brothers and sisters, you know, you're in it together and you don't leave anyone out. That's

[00:43:54] Jan: [00:43:54] great. And what's your legacy?

[00:43:58] Kevin: [00:43:58] Um, [00:44:00] I talked recently about this, that, you know, I said if, if. Say I weren't around and my team were talking about me and it was my, my wife and my children sitting in the audience. I would want them to say, Kevin always cared about us. Kevin gave his best, but it was always the best for us. You know, that, um, he taught me things that if without him, I would have never learned I'm a better human being.

[00:44:30] I'm a better executive. I'm just a better person because I had the opportunity to have him as a friend and as a mentor in my life.

[00:44:38] Jan: And that's a great way to end our conversation today. Kevin Brown. Thank you very

[00:44:44] Kevin:Thank you, Jan.

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