Meet Jeneanne Hanley, a recognized transformational leader , Board member of KLA and previously President of Lear E Systems

[Transcript]

Jan: [00:00:50] In this episode, you'll meet Janine Hanley. A leader on a mission to match people with purpose. She leads with a firm belief in modeling [00:01:00] behavior, and we win as a team, a self-confessed strategies, Elliot, and a list person. Janine takes us through many facets of authentic leadership. In this episode, you can expect to hear how she engaged a team around a new technology play specifically in the ed space, how they embraced innovation and executed in troubled times, particularly when there was fear in the air.

[00:01:30] You'll also hear insights gleaned from her interview with Mary Barra, CEO of general motors and Jocko Willink, the Navy seal, and co author of the book, extreme ownership. Let's get into it and continue our quest to find

[00:01:46] Jeneanne: [00:01:46] gravitas.

[00:01:54] Jan: [00:01:54] My guest today is no stranger to the C-suite. A leader who was [00:02:00] well-known in the automotive industry, a transformational leader with a reputation for building high-performing teams on the cutting edge of automotive technology. She currently holds a board position with KLA, a semiconductor equipment manufacturer, a Silicon Valley based company.

[00:02:21] She previously spent over 20 years with Lear. As a senior VP and president of the East systems division with revenues in excess of $5 billion over 50 manufacturing sites and 70,000 people. Please welcome to our show today, Janine Hanley.

[00:02:43] Jeneanne: [00:02:43] Well thank you for having me, John. It is

[00:02:45] Jan: [00:02:45] an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.

[00:02:49] Let's talk about, uh, your story. What is your story? Who are you?

[00:02:55] Jeneanne: [00:02:55] Well, um, I, um, I am born and raised in Southeastern [00:03:00] Michigan. Um, my father worked at general motors. My mom stayed at home with the four girls. I'm the oldest of four girls. And while my dad, um, worked extremely hard, um, starting out as an hourly employee at GM and working his way into salary and then taking classes at night school at Lawrence tech, um, to get his degree and doing that on and off over the years, you know, it was really critical to them that all four of us girls.

[00:03:32] Got a college education and all four of us did. And in fact, um, I remember graduating from the university of Michigan. Uh, commencements and going out. And six months later, going to my dad's commencement with the same degree, um, at Lawrence tech, and one thing he taught me, um, is that you never give up.

[00:03:56] Cause I remember asking him, dad, Isn't it just so hard for [00:04:00] you to finish uni. Do you really need it at this point? You know, you, he is, uh, you know, a quality manager at general motors. He'd like the job, you know, he was respected, did it really matter to finish it? And he said, I'm doing it for myself. I'm finishing it for myself.

[00:04:16] And you know, that really stuck with me that, you know, it's not about everybody else. You do these things for yourself too, whether it's to better yourself or just to prove to yourself, you can. And then after I finished, I immediately started working at Lear as a product engineer and I loved it. You know, I still say to this day, you know, there are ups and downs in your career and jobs.

[00:04:40] You love more than others. I don't know if I ever loved a job better than I loved my first few years when I was a product engineer. Just, you could see the fruits of your labor, right. You know, going to these huge assembly plants with your seats that you had designed and had. Stitch that you had put in that place was really gratifying.

[00:04:59] Um, [00:05:00] ultimately, you know, I, you know, getting, as we talked about earlier, my love of strategy. I was more interested in what we should be doing rather than designing a program to the spec that we had. So I developed an interest in the business side, moved over under the program, got my MBA at U of M and went back and got that, and really started getting more into the customer side and loved that too.

[00:05:27] Um, ultimately, um, I ended up getting the chief of strategy job we talked about earlier and at East systems and had that wonderful opportunity on the volt, very leadership changing. And then after that, What I really wanted to do was run a business. So very different. Um, an opportunity came up in our other division to run what we called surface materials.

[00:05:55] So I was the global vice president of sewing [00:06:00] leather, high design textiles foam, um, and loved every minute of it. And didn't know that I would, um, I think back very fondly on the five years that I spent with that team, you know, how hard the manual, uh, manufacturing, teamwork all over the world and the value that I place on these craftspeople that, you know, you, don't, you think of these thousands of people sewing and the skill that they have to have these carefully crafted trim covers for.

[00:06:32] Ferrari Lamborghini, Porsche Cadillac and they're all hand done. And these beautifully designed textiles and leathers and the finishes. I mean, I really, it was really. The perfect blend of art and science. And we, we took that business. It was a little over a billion up to over 3 billion, um, by growing it organically, but also some [00:07:00] acquisitions.

[00:07:00] And again, just a very fulfilling, probably the most fulfilling, um, time in my career and just worked with a tremendous group of people and everything from these. Really fun luxury brands just to us, you know, blocking and tackling a global supply chain. As you know, Jan, it was, you know, the best of times.

[00:07:21] And I look very fondly on that. And then after that I went and did the role of the president at ecosystems and, you know, loved, loved getting that started really working on the transition. He has. You know, Lear was tackling, what do we do about electrification and autonomy and connectivity and our place in it.

[00:07:43] And really spent the last year of my career there setting up the team and the strategy to go win in those spaces. So for me, um, I feel like I've had so far a very fulfilling career, but I'm really excited to see what's [00:08:00] next.

[00:08:01] Jan: [00:08:01] So Janine, I have to ask you, I noticed in some of the background information that you interviewed Mary Barra, tell

[00:08:10] Jeneanne: [00:08:10] us about that.

[00:08:11] I did. And, um, We had just started a women's group at Lear called grow, um, growth resources and opportunities for women. And we knew one of the things we wanted to do was to bring in leaders to speak and to be role models. So many of them were women, not all of them. And the very first person we asked was Mary.

[00:08:33] So I happened to be at an event at the time she was running, purchasing and product development for GM. And she, you know, before I could finish asking her, she said, yes. So it was about October. Um, she came in, I got to meet with her for about an hour beforehand, along with the rest of the senior team, interview her again for about another hour.

[00:08:55] And it was. Lovely and Frank, and it was just a real [00:09:00] inside look at her and her leadership style, um, which is, um, we learned so much from, as we're sitting here today and three months later, she became the CEO of general motors. So, you know, we'd like to think that maybe we had a little bit to do with that, but probably not, but it was, I'm a great timing, um, great relationship.

[00:09:19] And to this day, you know, it's, it's made a lasting impression on me and I know many others have said that to me also,

[00:09:26] Jan: [00:09:26] What are some of the traits that struck you about Mary Barra in that early meeting before she was CEO, we talk about leaders that have gravitas, that irresistible quality that pulls you in, what is it about Mary Barra that pulled you in?

[00:09:43] Jeneanne: [00:09:43] Yeah, for me personally, um, one thing that I noticed is she was very much, um, Not trying to emulate anybody else in the room. And I guess what I mean by that is she, wasn't trying to talk louder than [00:10:00] sit taller than use the same speak as other people do. If you know what I mean, she was a, quite had a quiet confidence.

[00:10:08] Um, she spoke a little bit differently, maybe a little bit quieter about, um, was no less confident. And I really admired. And again, this is just my personal observation, how she was comfortable or at least appeared very comfortable in her own skin. And that made an impression on me. Um, She also talked a lot about, um, her willingness to take different kinds of roles and being a leader.

[00:10:35] And that if it was just up to her, she may not have always made the right choices. But through listening to others who were looking out for her, um, mentors sponsors, who encouraged her to take some risks that that really formed turn again. Just spoke really, frankly, about not always having the right answers and not being afraid to take risks.

[00:10:56] And that also is something that sticks with me today. When I [00:11:00] think about Mary. Let's

[00:11:02] Jan: [00:11:02] follow that path of taking risks for a moment and stay with GM in 2010, you were put in charge of the volt program at Lear, and that was extremely risky at that point in time. You know, we didn't really understand where EVs were going and you were at the forefront of technology of innovation, of something.

[00:11:27] New, could you talk to us about what that felt like as a leader? And this is really a two-part question. So what that meant for you stepping out there in this high-risk area, but then how do you create a team and get people to buy into your vision as the leader in this high-risk area?

[00:11:49] Jeneanne: [00:11:49] Yeah, this one was a very interesting circumstance and, um, really formed a lot of the leader that I think that I am today.

[00:11:59] Uh, [00:12:00] when I started in the role, I was the chief of strategy for the electrical division. Uh, East systems division back at the time. So I was very aware of the business strategy, the technology strategy, you know, the numbers, you know, what had to happen and through some different, um, personnel changes and some performance issues at the time and a very high risk.

[00:12:24] You know, high profile development program, I was asked to take on the leadership role of execution. And so it's a big gap between knowing what needs to be done and getting it done. And when I came into the situation, um, you know, it was very stressful, you know, stressful on our team, on our suppliers, stressful with our customer.

[00:12:47] And you could just see I've referred to this in the past, as there was fear in the air. Um, the fear of failure, right. And it was a high stakes program and you couldn't afraid to lose. [00:13:00] And I think it's for the first time I, I had a moment like, Oh my gosh, what if I fail? You know, I've been given this job and it's, it's not on stable ground right now.

[00:13:11] What if I can't pull it off? What if, what if, and you know, all of the stout floods in, but I remember thinking, well, all you can really do is dig deep and do your best. And. When I saw the fear and really more than fear, our team had been working themselves to the bone. Again, our supplier partners, our customers.

[00:13:32] I really felt a calling to step in and to lead and to take some of the pressure off and to do my best with trying to black and tackle of what was important. What was the most important where resources were lacking, add them. You know, where people felt like they had too many constraints to be successful release some of the constraints.

[00:13:55] And I think at a very basic level, I went and sat with the [00:14:00] team and listened to them, listened to them, tell me what they needed and they have the answers. You know, it is so often the team does have the answers. So to me, I'm forming a bond at the team level that I heard them. I understood them that they maybe they hadn't gotten everything they needed to be successful.

[00:14:21] Having those same, very Frank conversations with our customers, um, about, Hey, we have to pull the team together. This is, you know, failure's not an option. We're going to pull this off. And it really just, when we reset the table, And got everybody back into what had to be done, how important was reminded everybody of how far we had already come, you know, focused somewhat on the positives.

[00:14:46] And there were a lot of positives, a lot of first market technologies in that vehicle. A lot of late nights. Um, And, but we, we did pull it off. And I remember at the launch [00:15:00] party, we had a little internal group where we handed out little mini awards to 50 or so of the team members on the team. I wish it could have been a thousand.

[00:15:09] Um, just the sense of pride and, and us all reflecting on. We're never gonna forget this. So I think it's people can do amazing things when they think they're in it together. Um, when there's trust, when they're not afraid, when they're not afraid to give it everything it's hopeless. When you feel like you're giving it everything and you're failing, it's energizing when you're giving it everything you have.

[00:15:34] And you're going to win and you're going to win as a team. And so some of it's the mindset and it was not always easy times. It wasn't a linear process. There were good days and bad, but, um, I think just sticking together and always having each other's back and they knew I had their back was, was the key.

[00:15:55] Jan: [00:15:55] The traditional tier one supplier model, the traditional [00:16:00] leadership model and huge generalization here, but one of positional power, you know, I am the boss. I will tell you what to do. And if you fail, I will promptly take your head off. And we have grown up with that model. And of course it's changing and we know it's changing, but you have been on the forefront of automotive technology and innovation and.

[00:16:19] We know that innovation by design is about trying and failing and learning from that failure in order to innovate and move forward. So we have such a dramatic culture shift that's required in the automotive industry to get us to that point. You obviously were able to do some of that in your role. Uh, any advice.

[00:16:44] To lead us out there that may be listening or struggling with, you know, how do I, how do I do this? How do I encourage this team to learn from their failures and feel safe?

[00:16:55] Jeneanne: [00:16:55] Yeah, I think there are a few things you can do very practically, you [00:17:00] know, the first thing sounds easy, but it's not, which is ring fencing resources, whether resources being people, of course, um, management time, of course, and then money.

[00:17:12] And I think there has to be a budget. Um, and you know, depending on the size of the project, there are different. Sizes of budgets where you allowed people to experiment. I mean, there's a reason that to me, there's there's research, there's research and development. There's applications, engineering, there's core engineering.

[00:17:32] You have to allow that sandbox time. And there has to be a certain amount of money and people and hours, um, and nothing will really replace that. So there's always the temptation, especially when you work in an industry, um, like automotive that cyclical, the easiest thing to cut in the world is the future.

[00:17:51] Right. Yeah. And you know, that's the job of the leader of balancing what's prudent. Um, and sometimes trimming things, you know, is the right answer, [00:18:00] but what to ring fence? Um, the other thing is, um, engineering needs to have a seat at the table, you know, a lot of times we're. Uh, manufacturing driven, um, industry, I believe.

[00:18:13] And, and rightly so. I mean, nobody's got a bigger, um, you know, 24 hour, a day, seven day, a week global, uh, industry like we do. And, and there's a reason why we're tapped down and we're driven by, you know, driving the right processes globally. Um, we're also financially driven, you know, cash is King and a lot of businesses and in automotive it takes a lot of cash and, and you have to watch that too.

[00:18:38] But are you making sure that engineers have a seat at the table that you're letting them tell you? What's wonderful. What's exciting. What they know that nobody else knows. Are you making the time in your day? I used to on Friday mornings, grab my Starbucks coffee at the crack of Dawn because all the engineers are in early and just go walk [00:19:00] around.

[00:19:00] And talk to people and see what they were up to if they had plans for the weekend or, Hey, what's this part sitting on your desk and just try to let them know that you're approachable, that you care about what you're working on, that you're demonstrating and saying that you know, that the secret sauce, that what makes us who we are, our competitive advantage is not only what we're working on, but it's done.

[00:19:27] And then maybe the third thing is just modeling, modeling behavior. Right. Um, how do you take bad news? How do you react to failure? You know, are you, you know, are you, uh, publicly thanking somebody for taking a risk. It may be it failed, but if we'd never tried, we'd never would have known. And now we do, and we're going to adjust and we're going to try a few more things and we're going to fail a couple more times.

[00:19:50] So I think, especially when you're a leader, people are watching everything. You're doing everything you're saying, so you need to model it. Hmm. Yeah.

[00:19:58] Jan: [00:19:58] Excellent point. [00:20:00] Let's. Talk about, continue to talk about culture. You are working for a Silicon Valley based company. Right now, I would imagine a very different culture to one that we know and love.

[00:20:13] And the tier one auto supply base. Could you tell us a little bit about the differences that you see?

[00:20:19] Jeneanne: [00:20:19] Yeah. And it's, it's funny. I think necessity breeds different things. First of all, in, as you said, I, um, I do believe in automotive, there are changes. Some companies are making more radical changes than others, but some of my initial observations, just, again, my experience is the way they think about time.

[00:20:38] In place. And, um, you know, if you are familiar at all with the Bay area, you know, that housing's a huge issue. You also know that, um, traffic is a huge issue. So the concept that everybody is sitting in a chair, you know, at seven or seven 30 in the morning, till six or seven at night, it's just not expected.

[00:21:00] [00:21:00] And it doesn't mean that people aren't working it's that people trust, um, That people are doing the work and they're available. I mean, it's a 24, seven world. People have all kinds of devices, but you know, you and I were talking about an example about, um, a person who was working, uh, in the Michigan office reporting back to a senior person in the California office and asking about, Hey, you know, if I have a doctor's appointment, if I have a vacation, you know, if I'm going to be running late, you know, how will you know, I don't want, you know, how should I text you?

[00:21:33] And. The person, you know, looking at him, going, what are you talking about? You do what you need to do, you know, call into the meeting. If he can't, you know, we're working remotely. And it's just, it's the assumption that there's trust from the start. And I love that. Right. You know, you start from the point of you're going to do what you need to do.

[00:21:52] And if for some reason you're not here, it's because there was something else you needed to do and you're available. And you're committed and you're [00:22:00] engaged and you're connected. Um, but treating, um, you know, we always talk about hiring all of this talent, but are we setting them free to be themselves to be responsible?

[00:22:11] And of course, as we all know, uh, most people are right. Yes.

[00:22:16] Jan: [00:22:16] You remind me of something that Jerry Anderson, the chairman of DTE sat in a conference several months ago, and he talks about tapping into that discretionary energy that people have, because we want people to bring everything they've got. To work, be fully engaged, feel good about themselves, about their work, and then leave with enough time to enjoy whatever it is they want to enjoy outside of work.

[00:22:43] And the secret is how do, how do we do that? How do we connect the hearts and minds of people? And it really does come down to trust. Trust is one of the basic building blocks of getting that, um, connecting to that energy. What else did you do to [00:23:00] connect people to. Your vision or mission to, to get that energy all flowing in the right direction.

[00:23:07] Jeneanne: [00:23:07] You know, I think there are a couple of specific tools. I mean, other than just welcoming and inviting people to the conversation. I mean in general and doing that in an informal informal basis. A couple of the more formal things I did as an example was, you know, purpose. You know, a lot of times we talk about strategy and I love strategy.

[00:23:30] I'm a strategy zealot, and, you know, I love to facilitate it. I'd like to be in the middle of it. I, I always think the difference is a great strategy. Um, but really strategy is a conversation where we talk about what should we. Not based on all these constraints, go do the best job you can, but it's the big why the big, what the big, how, and when you invite more people to participate in that, I think there's just an inherent, um, ownership to it.

[00:23:57] One, I was I'm respected enough to be [00:24:00] invited to the, to the table. Two, I made a contribution. Maybe I didn't get everything I wanted in that, you know, strategy, you know, document. Um, and three, you get the purpose because you heard all the grumble, you know, you heard the discussions and the debates and the care, and you really get people to take ownership and the why we're doing something and why we've made these choices.

[00:24:24] The second formal event that no matter what job I've ever had is a priority to me is talking about the strategy of people. And so you're like, that's great. We have this business strategy. We have the financial five-year plan. We've we've produced a budget. It all looks good. What's the difference between execution and strategy?

[00:24:45] Well, it's the people, right? And so the second biggest meeting is getting everyone together, talking about their teams. And getting people excited. And again, it's modeling, you know, recognizing leaders who [00:25:00] recognize their own leaders who develop, who let a talented person go to another team because you know, it's the right, right thing for the bigger team and really thinking about, have you asked each person what ignites them and what gets them excited?

[00:25:15] You know, that's one of the things I really believe at is you have to care what people want. What they enjoy the most, because if you want that deeper engagement, that, that higher excitement it's, it's where their passion meets the purpose of the organization and the need for the business. And that's the fun part, connecting those dots.

[00:25:37] So inviting people to the conversation of what we're doing and why, and then who should be doing it. And who could do it better and who could do it faster. And wouldn't it be fun if we switched these folks around to see what they could do with each other's roles? Um, I think that's where a lot of the magic happens.

[00:25:59] Jan: [00:25:59] You. And I were [00:26:00] talking earlier about a book called extreme ownership. Yeah. And we both had similar initial reactions to the book. And for those people who have not read extreme ownership, it's written by two Navy seals. And it's really, they talk about active duty and then they run a parallel to the business world.

[00:26:26] And when I first saw that and I thought, Oh, it's a military book. It's going to be all testosterone based and aggressive. And I had no interest in it whatsoever. And then I read it and it's one of my. Top three favorite books of all time. There's no question about that. In one of the authors is Jocko Willink, and I believe that you had the opportunity to interview him.

[00:26:49] He was a speaker at an organization that you worked at. And tell us a little bit

[00:26:54] Jeneanne: [00:26:54] about that. Yeah. Um, similar to you, we were having our annual leadership [00:27:00] conference and, um, Jacko had been asked to come in and speak. I wasn't familiar with him. I hadn't read his books and some of the guys, and yes, I'm saying the guys were really excited about him and knew him and similar reaction.

[00:27:14] And, um, again, my bias, right. You know, this is not my thing, you know, I'm sure he's a great guy, but you know, it's, it's not gonna speak to me, but I did read his book and I had the opportunity to actually interview him. And so I got to meet him a little before and a little after, and he's a really engaging person and.

[00:27:35] You know, one, you know, you always have these snippets that stick with you. And to this day, like on a daily basis, his, he makes the point of, it's not what you preach, it's what you tolerate. And I love that because it's the ultimate accountability for a leader. You know, all of us say what we want. Right.

[00:27:56] You know, we want innovation. We want high [00:28:00] performance teams. We want a great culture. Well, nobody says they want a bad culture. Right. But do you have the guts to do what it takes to correct what isn't right. And he puts it in such extreme terms terms. And of course the situations that he was in were literally life and death situations.

[00:28:22] There's nothing more accountable than that. And you simply can't afford to tolerate a bad culture. And it really, I think back to that, to hold myself accountable, because it's not enough, you know, we talk a lot about the positives, right? When you're talking about culture about what you do to do it, right?

[00:28:39] What kind of leaders that you're trying to develop, but what happens when there's a bad behavior? Um, what happens when, when I don't behave the way I want to behave. What happens when others don't as a leader, you have to acknowledge it, own it, correct it for yourself and demand that of the team. Also, I think you and I [00:29:00] have said that we've, there've been some really nice people who are great leaders.

[00:29:04] But who don't correct that behavior on the team and at the end of the day, it's not, not as good of a team as it could

[00:29:09] Jan: [00:29:09] be. Yeah. That's a really good point in one of my favorites is always people that talk about empowerment and say, Oh, I fully empower my people. My team is. Fully empowered to make the decisions.

[00:29:21] And then you find that they go back to the office and they micromanage and they want to know what time people are coming in and how are decisions being made? And what's the status of every metric every minute of the day, you know, that is not empowerment. So I think you're absolutely right. And that's a valuable, um, Point that our audience can take away from this today.

[00:29:43] That it's, it's not what you preach. It's what you tolerate.

[00:29:47] Jeneanne: [00:29:47] And the higher you go in an organization, let's be honest. There are fewer people willing to tell you that. Yeah. And that's I, um, you know, at Lee or, uh, for many of the years I worked there, we didn't have [00:30:00] formal feedback loops, informal, which a lot of companies have that, um, in the last five or six years we had implemented, um, I guess it'd be 270 degree feedback, but getting feedback anonymously through a series of leadership questions.

[00:30:16] And I know for me, it really helped because it wasn't anything anybody was going to say to me, but when you have six or seven people and five of them are all telling you the same thing, you can't run from it and you can't hide from it. And if you're a good leader, you're constantly trying to improve. You don't want to hide from it.

[00:30:35] You're like you own it. And you acknowledged the feedback to the team and you say, you're right. And I want you to hold me accountable. You know, I need, I need to do better here. And so I, I think about that a lot, not what you preach, what you tolerate.

[00:30:52] Jan: [00:30:52] You talked about personal accountability. So let's take that into the personal realm, because we all know that you can't lead others [00:31:00] until you know how to lead yourself.

[00:31:02] So how do you hold yourself accountable for things in life, whether it's health, family, um, you know, you tell me what's, how

[00:31:11] Jeneanne: [00:31:11] do you do that? You know, it's. A series of different things with, um, veering to success like everybody else, but I've, um, Recently, or in more recent years journal a little bit. And I think about like at the beginning of the year, and I'll, I'll check in on, you know, kind of list of what do I want to accomplish.

[00:31:33] It might be this year, this quarter, the six months, but kind of a holistic list. And it's professionally, it's personally it's with my family, with my friends. Um, And I check in on it periodically to make sure I'm being purposeful on my time and my attention. And so as many things you, you realize you've gravitated toward a third of the list [00:32:00] done.

[00:32:00] Okay. On another third and the other third got forgotten, you reset and you recalibrate. So I think reminding yourself what you promised and for me, it's writing it down.

[00:32:12] Jan: [00:32:12] Hmm. Interesting. Is there any formats or that you use or are you just open journal?

[00:32:17] Jeneanne: [00:32:17] Yeah, for me, I'm a list person, so it's, it's definitely a journal and I'll, and I'll go long form in terms of what my rationale was, why I've done it, but then I like, I like to tick through yes.

[00:32:35] Jan: [00:32:35] Let's talk about authentic leadership. We've we've talked about the tenants of authentic leadership, but what does authentic leadership mean to you?

[00:32:45] Jeneanne: [00:32:45] You know, it's funny, it's meant different things at different points in my career. Obviously being authentic is different when you're fresh out of college and you're trying to figure it all out and act like you have it all together.

[00:32:58] Um, versus [00:33:00] now, um, 24 years later into my career, but authentic means. That you bring your whole self to work. And I know other people have said that, but what that means to me is I'm comfortable being myself that I, um, I'm part of a team, but I'm not trying to fit into a team and fits a funny word we can talk about too, is, is the team.

[00:33:26] And I fit together. Right. And it's not about the clothes I wear or how I wear my hair or, um, the tone of my voice that I'm okay. Being myself I'm comfortable in my own skin because I'm good, you know, because I've done things and not because I'm perfect, but I I'm a welcomed part of the team. Um, being imperfect.

[00:33:52] And I don't have to try to be something I'm not. And when we all do our best work, if that's what [00:34:00] you could be. And if you, again, you know, I keep using this word modeling. If you're modeling this authentic behavior, it gives everybody else who works for you or with you, or by you permission to be themselves also.

[00:34:13] Right. And you're not fitting a mold. The mold is, is talent. The mall is innovation, the mold, isn't the superficial things that sometimes we can strain ourselves with, um, being authentic as admitting you made mistakes. Right. And, um, being open to feedback, but it's also, um, having confidence and knowing, you know, what your strengths are and not being afraid to stand up, to do the right thing.

[00:34:41] And it takes courage to be authentic. And I, and that's the only thing I don't mean to put too rosy a spin on it because it's not easy being authentic, but I would say, um, Now I'm not willing to be anything else. And what I would wish for everyone is they shouldn't be willing to be [00:35:00] anything else.

[00:35:02] Jan: [00:35:02] I would say that in my career, I spent a lot of years focusing on fitting the mold.

[00:35:09] There's no question. I would love to sit here and say, Oh, I've been authentic in every job in every situation. The reality is no, I have not. When you're in a room with somebody who controls your paycheck and I'm a single mom with a mortgage that I'm not going to step out there and do something that's going to really upset that person.

[00:35:33] I w I've never been afraid just to put my voice in my opinion forward, but to a certain point, right? So imagine a world where everybody felt 100% safe and comfortable to put that idea forward, to put themselves. Out there. What innovation would come out of that the creativity that would come out of that I would be phenomenal, but how [00:36:00] do we get the leadership model to allow that?

[00:36:04] Jeneanne: [00:36:04] Well, I think, you know, you said it and you know, I was saying, yeah, Same thing, you know, at the beginning, I just, I desperately wanted to fit in. Right. I wasn't really, I didn't even know what was my authentic self, who was, I, you know, I was 22, you know, I didn't know anything and I didn't want anybody to find out about that.

[00:36:22] So I was trying to prove to everybody what I knew and. I think it takes people who have the ability and have a little more power in the organization. Maybe it's financial power. I mean, that's a real constraint. Right. And we shouldn't pretend like it isn't. Um, and, uh, higher levels that, again, just demonstrating, being different is okay.

[00:36:44] And that doesn't mean you're different. So everybody be different. Like me, it's be different like yourself and, you know, Going back to our early conversation about culture and what time you come in and having trust with people, it all goes together, [00:37:00] right? It's all being, being yourself and being judged on your contribution.

[00:37:05] Not on all the superficial things. What time you come in, you know, how you. Dress what your presentation format is. Does it look like the other guy or girls? You know, it's the contribution. And I think people really respect when a company or a leader knows the difference. They know who's contributing versus who, who puts on a good show.

[00:37:28] And it's amazing. There's a big difference. And I think the bigger the company, the bigger, the problem with that there can potentially be. So you really have to admire some of these big companies who really started from them getting really, um, embracing, you know, the individual and yeah. You know, for other companies who maybe didn't, it's a tougher transition, but I think each and every one of us has a choice we make every day, every time we open our mouth, every time we walk out the door, um, How much of yourself you're going to put out there and I'm not suggesting it's [00:38:00] easy because sometimes there's a price to be paid for that authenticity.

[00:38:04] Um, but you, it's your choice and decide there's a certain point. If you're in an organization that doesn't allow you to be any percent of yourself, then you know, you have to think about that also.

[00:38:17] Jan: [00:38:17] Yes. I, I will say that since I left my corporate job and started, uh, gravitas Detroit, uh, I am truly my authentic self to the point that I'm dancing to thunderstruck on stage in front of 700 people.

[00:38:30] Well, because I absolutely love it and I have no fear. Right. Nobody can fire me.

[00:38:37] Jeneanne: [00:38:37] Think of these words that keep coming up. Trust. No fear. Right. Feeling valued, heard, and respected. I

[00:38:45] Jan: [00:38:45] also have no fear or concern of judgment, right? No fear of judgment that has, that has gone, that has left me. And in fact, that happened right before I [00:39:00] ended my corporate career.

[00:39:02] And I remember making a conscious decision to change the way I dressed for decades. It's been suits in the eighties, Taylor dresses, heels. Yep. And all of a sudden, I just didn't feel like I wanted to fit that mold anymore. On the real authentic me came out and the edgier clothes came out and sometimes I'd put my hair in a ponytail and it actually caused quite a bit of a scandal at work.

[00:39:30] People wondered what was wrong. Because they saw the change and did that should, you'd never be you're right. People should be able to go into the workplace, be who they are without fear of judgment, without fear of losing their jobs. You know, this need to be liked that we all suffer from as human beings.

[00:39:50] It's an, it's a natural thing, but so much so in the workplace today, it, it should not drive or limit any sort of behavior or decision-making what

[00:40:00] [00:39:59] Jeneanne: [00:39:59] wasted energy, right? I mean, again, you talk about engagement and, you know, you want people to come and put all their energy into the, into the, cause the purpose, the work, right?

[00:40:10] The quality of the work, you know, what are we going to do today? And, um, you know, to me being authentic means being comfortable in your own skin and being, feeling accepted for that. Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely

[00:40:22] Jan: [00:40:22] right. Let's talk about gravitas. Gravitas. Is that irresistible quality that pulls you in. As a leader, what is your gravitas?

[00:40:37] Jeneanne: [00:40:37] See, sometimes I think you're better off asking other people what that is. Right. But here's what I think I know about my gravitas and it's a work in progress. Um, I'm very strategic minded, meaning that I laid up when I talk about where I think a business can go. And what it can be and who we can be. And [00:41:00] it's always something big and good.

[00:41:01] Right. And it's not just the big idea, but putting the key elements of, and this is what we've got to go do to win and here's who needs to go do it. And then here's how we're going to communicate as a team. And we're all going to have each other's back. I think it it's it's vision, it's teamwork, it's trust.

[00:41:23] And. You have to have some laughs along the way. Right. You know, I think another piece of magic that good leaders have, and sometimes I have it and sometimes I don't, by the way, is in good times and bad. You want people to have fun and you can have fun. When things are tough and in a crisis, right? Because you still are doing good work.

[00:41:45] You might be doing the hardest, best work you've ever done in a crisis at times. And so I think keeping people aligned with where we're going, that they're an important part of it. They're a part of it. They're not just by standards, they [00:42:00] own it. They're in it. They're there they're difference makers. Um, you know, I think that energy people see it and that lights them up.

[00:42:09] Yes.

[00:42:10] Jan: [00:42:10] And I, I liked the idea that you brought up this thought about having fun. In the past, it's almost to bill, you know, you have to be serious at work and you have to be professional at all times. And that's, that's not the world that we live in today. I mean, the line between our personal and professional lives is more blurred now than ever before, particularly with social media and the transparency that we have.

[00:42:34] And one of the things I always love to do with my team was they call me the queen of the offsite. Because I loved offsite meetings. It's an, it's an opportunity to strategize and there's a lot of hard work that's done in those offsite meetings. You're getting into some issues. You're talking about barriers, things that are perhaps plaguing the organization or preventing you from moving forward.

[00:42:57] You can spend time focusing on those and how you're going to [00:43:00] break it through them. But it's also an opportunity there to relax and have fun and do some teaming exercises. Together. Uh, we went to a couple of years ago. I took the team down to the zombie room down in Detroit. And some of these guys were from other countries, you from one guy from India and one guy from China and trying to explain to these guys what a zombie was, and this guy was going to happen, come and climb out of the floor was, was amazing, but it was fun.

[00:43:26] It was a team, it was a team building activity, but you know, we, we worked on the issues together and I love it when I see companies doing more and more of this type of

[00:43:35] Jeneanne: [00:43:35] activity. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think we've almost all of us have had some type of positive experience with an offsider team building.

[00:43:43] And when you think about it, you're unlocking them from the day-to-day constraints. You're, you're letting people just have a little bit of fun, get out of their comfort zone, let their guard down really. I mean, again, back to authentic, let your guard down and isn't that where some of the most [00:44:00] creative prolific work comes out of.

[00:44:02] And so I imagine. If you can put a piece of that into everyday culture, like it's not the three times a year, you go off site and go to the zombie room or have a team building activity or go site to a new environment, which are all great things. I think you should still do those, but how do you interject that fun and comfort, um, to get.

[00:44:24] More out of folks. It's, it's a win-win, they love it more and you get more out of it. And that is the

[00:44:30] Jan: [00:44:30] exact challenge that the leaders of today and in the future will have absolutely leaders of the future. Let's talk about your 25 year old self today. What advice would you give your 25 year old self today in today's environment?

[00:44:50] Jeneanne: [00:44:50] Yeah. I mean, I always start with, um, nothing replaces hard work, right? So I think it's where you focus the hard work, but, but nothing, there are no free [00:45:00] rides. You have to work hard. And in particular, because things are evolving so quickly, you really have to commit yourself to lifelong learning. You know, what, what, you know today, you know, in the age of the internet and, uh, you know, AI and connectivity and everything that's possible now, um, things change.

[00:45:20] So how are you going to keep yourself up to speed with it? Um, you know, I think take initiative is an age old, um, you know, good, good advice for folks. Don't waste time, not learning. If you weren't learning, it's time to do something else and go to your supervisor, ask, ask for another role. But I do think when I think of, you know, if you're positioning yourself as being a future leader, um, skills that harmonize across functional groups, I think will be tremendously valued, um, that can bring technical and marketing [00:46:00] and human resources and, and sales teams together.

[00:46:04] Um, I don't understand. To meet that technology. Isn't the answer for everything, because as you said, you could have the best idea in the world. Is it a, is it a failure on laying on the cutting room floor of the R and D team? Or is it really something that we all embrace? So, you know, I just think, you know, work hard, make sure you're not squandering years, not learning, um, be flexible.

[00:46:27] Take chances. Um, and there's nothing wrong with liking doing more of something because you like it, you know, it, you can't plan everything out. I know I didn't plan everything out. I'm sure you didn't plan everything out. Take some things as they come, but you know, have a plan, but be flexible with the plan.

[00:46:46] A great opportunity might come out of the blue and it wasn't in your plan. So what, you know, just, just be flexible, Bob and weave a little bit, but it's really on you. To make sure you're growing. There's no [00:47:00] boss or supervisor whose responsibility it is. It's great. If you have one who's committed to your growth, but you're the master of your growth.

[00:47:08] Yeah.

[00:47:08] Jan: [00:47:08] Good advice. So let's fast forward to the end of your career. What's your legacy? Well,

[00:47:16] Jeneanne: [00:47:16] I don't know fully what my end of my career is, but I do know one thing that I cared deeply about pairing. People up with purpose and helping them grow and helping them find their purpose professionally and otherwise.

[00:47:34] Um, and also the legacy of the team that you leave behind. I know even in my corporate career, as I would move from one job to the next, when I look back at what I'm the most proud of it was. Potentially giving people an opportunity in the organization that hadn't been given the same opportunity by others.

[00:47:56] Um, maybe they were different, maybe they weren't as [00:48:00] polished or as well-spoken at the beginning. Right. But that I could find and really appreciate different kinds of talent. And beyond that, um, Drove a culture that beyond them and their teams really started building a pipeline of talent. And that the teams that I would build would, would actually create future leaders and other organizations also.

[00:48:26] So I think the legacy isn't just what you do in a project. It's really the people that you touch one way or the other. That you helped them find their path that you make open doors for them. And then the multiplier, the great multiplier is when you get them thinking the same and really cascading it down to others.

[00:48:46] And so I hope my legacy is helping more people find the dream, you know, more people reach their potential. And, um, as we discussed earlier, are you doing it? And you reached the [00:49:00] point where you are your authentic self and you feel really fulfilled.

[00:49:03] Jan: [00:49:03] That's a perfect way to end Janine Hanley. Thank you very much for joining

[00:49:08] Jeneanne: [00:49:08] us.

[00:49:08] Oh, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Jan,