Martin Fischer on Shaping ZF's Automotive Leadership and Culture

[Transcript]

[00:00:00] Jan Griffiths: Welcome to the Automotive Leaders Podcast, where we help you prepare for the future by sharing stories, insights, and skills from leading voices in the automotive world with a mission to transform this industry together. I'm your host, Jan Griffiths, that passionate, rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales with over 35 years of experience in our beloved auto industry and a commitment to empowering fellow leaders to be their best authentic selves.

Stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership. Let's dive in.

This episode is brought to you by Lockton. Lockton redefines business insurance and people solutions with a personal touch. Their global team of 11,000 is driven by independence, not quarters. To tailor success for your business, discover the Lockton difference where your goals become their mission. Independence. It's not just how you think but how you act.

The automotive industry is going through a period of massive transformation. All day long, we talk about the technology. We talk about EVs. We talk about batteries. We talk about range. We talk about charging infrastructure all day long. But it's about much more than that. This transformation is not only about the product. It's about the people. It's about leadership, and it's about culture.

Today, we're going to get inside the mind of a leader of one of the largest global automotive suppliers: Martin Fischer, the head of ZF Industries, North America. Martin, welcome to the show.

[00:02:12] Martin Fischer: Jan, thanks for having me. Great opportunity.

[00:02:15] Jan Griffiths: Lovely to talk to you. Let's go straight in. I'm going to ask you the tough question that many leaders have trouble answering. And that is, who are you, Martin Fischer, as a leader?

[00:02:28] Martin Fischer: Yeah, that really goes right in. Happy to start there. I mean, first of all, I have to say, I am myself as leader, Martin Fischer. So, I prefer to have that one face, that one mindset, that one personality that shows in my private life and my professional life, and what is it I'm made of? I think that goes quite a long way back to the values that I have grown up with that my parents, in the end, gave me, and that makes me a person. And my values that are really important and relate to that leadership are basically integrity; that's at the get-go. There was never any doubt about that at home, and I think that's a strong value to carry in. And then, it's probably mostly about performance and team. So, I would say this is my values where I say it holds for the personal life and it holds for the leadership life. And the question is, so how does it transpire into leadership, into leadership style? Integrity is a must. So, my people are always going to see a lot of transparency from me. I think that's a key element: transparency, clarity, openness. And then, on the other two, it's about performance and people, and maybe even more so performance through people.

So here come the two elements that I really have an eye on to say, 'Where do you want to take a business, a corporation? What's the aspiration? How do we draw a vision that's appealing and can trigger performance?' But then it's all about the people. What motivates people around me to really live up to that vision and deliver that performance that we want to commonly bring in our team in order to make a company and a business prosper?

[00:04:12] Jan Griffiths: Didn't you ever feel pressure to fit a mold? The ZF Industries has a strong German heritage. And German companies traditionally are known for compliance and, structure, and rule-following. And, strict, perhaps a more aggressive type of leadership style. Did you ever feel pressure to fit the mold of that type of leader? How were you able to give yourself permission to be who you are?

[00:04:41] Martin Fischer: Yeah, I think that's key, right? And let's first of all say there are really strong elements also in that German leadership culture: there's strong strategizing, there's good planning, and there is really good execution of plans. I would say those are the strengths. And then, at the same time, if my ideals coming in that also got shaped from intercultural experiences, working half of my career in Germany, being half of my career stationed here in Detroit, right in the US. I want to be able to bring these elements to the show as well. So, I think in that leadership, it's important to see both strengths, the strengths of both leadership styles, right? A more traditional one might be called German or traditional automotive, and then a more people-focused, empowering leadership style, on the other hand.

[00:05:30] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, I agree with you. There's not this cookie-cutter approach to culture or leadership. There is bringing your whole self to the role, to the job, to leadership, being authentic, and then looking back in your career and looking around you and picking out those traits that you believe are important to you as a leader and to your culture. So, what was it or what has happened in your past or in your career that really stands out to you that have shaped who you are as a leader today?

[00:06:02] Martin Fischer: Yeah, that's the wrong story because now we are talking 25 years of leadership in the automotive industry. And I have to say I went through really very different stages of businesses, business challenges, and therefore then, also leadership development. When I started off at Siemens first, when they still had their automotive business, I was made in charge of a new product coming up. It was, at the time, tire pressure monitoring systems. We were a team of five that I could head up, and we were to conquer the market with these tire pressure monitoring systems. I mean, me right out of school with two years of a bit of experience in Siemens, and then those four others. It felt like a startup. And we had to innovate. We had to create. And the market opened up for that system. Within three years, we grew that to a 100-person business and acquired 200 million in sales. And all that with little experience, so it really felt like a startup. Everybody on the team helped out where it was needed. Not much of formal processes in terms of leadership. Just we want to win. We want to run. We want to go. So, here's a piece of experience where I say, 'Hey, how do you bring novel to the world?' Yeah. Early on experience on the track.

[00:07:12] Jan Griffiths: So they trusted you.

[00:07:14] Martin Fischer: And I trusted me. There was a lot of trust in that.

[00:07:16] Jan Griffiths: Because you were young, you were inexperienced, but you must've felt safe in that environment to lead that team of people; you had psychological safety, it sounds like.

[00:07:28] Martin Fischer: There was a division leader who said, 'You know what, you got to do that for us.' And he had interestingly matched me up with a very senior leader as a coach on that whole journey. Yeah. Then we had all the freedom, and it was exciting that we not only developed that new product but we tried out all new sorts of things. So, we even changed processes on the flight that were not existing at the time because we didn't know better and we wanted to progress. So, that was really an exciting time.

[00:07:59] Jan Griffiths: Many leaders are reluctant to fully empower their people or trust their people to the degree that you just explained because of the fear of failure. It's the fear of, 'Oh no, if this person fails, it's going to be on me, and I'm going to be in trouble.' So therefore, the micromanagement starts to come in, and then people disengage because nobody wants to be micromanaged. How do you see that evolving here? I mean, that was one thing when you were at Siemens; you were in charge of a small team, but now you're in charge of a large, complex technology company in the automotive industry. How do you take that experience now and, amplify it, and impact the culture here at ZF?

[00:08:45] Martin Fischer: Yeah. And now we are really 20 years ahead, right? The people who report to me, who work with me no longer are the same young engineers. Now, I'm working with senior leaders, those business leaders I can work with they run businesses between 3 and 10 billion in size. So, very well-established executives know how to run their businesses. And I believe a key point of motivating them is to give that trust and to let them have their playground. When you read Dan Pink about play, purpose, potential as being the sources of motivation, that playground is so important, but at the same time, it's not only empowerment, it's also accountability. So, of course, I want to see results from it. And in order to have that trust that, I always give and sustain that trust. It's also clear we agree on clear deliverables. So, with the empowerment comes also the obligation to deliver. I think that's a way to play it. And then give the rule for a leader to shape business, to run business, but also be pretty clear. What are milestones? What are the numbers that have to come out of it in order to have a bit of control still on what's happening? It cannot be an open loop.

[00:10:01] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's one of the biggest challenges that our leaders face today is balancing the need for the metrics with the people's side of the business and knowing now that we have to focus a lot more on the people's side of the business because the old command and control leadership model that got us here to where we are today in the industry is not going to get us into the future. There's a leader that I interviewed a year ago. His name is Doug Conant, and he's not in the auto industry. He's the former CEO of the Campbell Soup Company, an iconic global company. And he turned that company around. It was done for; it was history. He ended up with not only the numbers turning the company around and seeing the bottom-line impact, but the Gallup organization said that he achieved employee engagement metrics that they had never seen before, 77 to one. Unheard of. And Doug has a tagline, and it goes like this: he says, 'You've got to be tough on standards and tender-hearted with people. You cannot have one or the other. You have to have both.' The trick is to get that balance right. And there's no book for this. There is no manual to follow for this. There is only you as a leader, bringing yourself to the table and understanding how to make that balance work with your team.

[00:11:30] Martin Fischer: And that's something Jan, I think one has to also experience and learn over the period because it's pretty easy to be one-sided and say, 'I'm the results person, or I'm the people person.' And matching both sides together that's really then getting admired leaders. And really gets the result to go. I was very lucky in one of my assignments, and with one of my employers, the CEO figured out exactly that he needed that balance between results orientation and people orientation. And he teamed us all up, all us management board members, with his leadership coach, who educated us on those two legs to stand on. So, those guys who had a bit of a problem on the results side, he would help better there. And for those who might not have had their strength on the people side, he made us come up with an understanding and also very concrete behaviors on how we get that people orientation going. So, that's also where we now look into ZF and our culture program. Something that's super important, deal with both sides of the coin.

[00:12:35] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. And it starts with you. You're the senior-level leader in North America. People are going to look to you and your leadership team and how they behave. And it's like having kids, right? When you see behavior in your children that is not acceptable, it's not in line with what you want, and you allow them to behave that way without saying anything or without correcting that behavior, then you're just, you're not making any change. You're not making any difference. You're not transforming the culture. So, leaders have to really have to walk the talk. And then when they see behavior that's not in line with that, they have to address it. And I think a lot of leaders, particularly in the old command and control model, they don't want to deal with that. So, there's a whole new skill set that leaders have to have now to be able to recognize and deal with these behaviors that either support the culture or detract away from the culture.

[00:13:33] Martin Fischer: At the get-go of it, how do you find the culture for a company? And at ZF we took that effort in 2020; we had a bit of time during COVID, not traveling as much. And after all the M&A deals we had done for the company, we were sitting down as the management board and saying, 'What is really our culture? What are the principles?' What are the values that we stand for?' And that started off from the board people itself, ourselves, saying, 'Hey, what are those five things we want to sign up for? And is that in line with our values? Is that in line with our beliefs as a person?' And we were vetting that with broader circles of people throughout the company, and we came up defining that. So, that was the first important step. And I was on the board saying, 'Yeah, we stand for that. We really burn for that.' And then meanwhile, we are in that rollout and rollout of a culture and a company of 160,000 people. That is a big endeavor, right? So, we are now trying different ways of saying, 'How do we engage really the whole organization with these cultural elements?' And we have come up here in North America with a very fine methodology because we work at top down. Yeah, I'm the example as a leader, right? And I set out the behaviors that we want to have and nurture in our culture. But we are now also working at bottom up and engage teams who say, in order to make it to this cultural vision, what's not so good in our daily life? So, from the employment surveys, we would, you know, want to empower. Well, these approval runs are rather long still for little things. So, here's groups of people that we now encourage to say where's our flaws in the culture. How do you want to go about it? We call them the culture pioneers. So, HR is organizing that whole thing for us, and culture pioneers can sign up and say, 'I have an idea where I can help the culture to come to better levels.'

[00:15:28] Jan Griffiths: You actually have a position or a title, or you're tagging somebody as a cultural pioneer.

[00:15:36] Martin Fischer: Absolutely.

[00:15:36] Jan Griffiths: I love that idea.

[00:15:37] Martin Fischer: We even run applications for that. So, we open it up, for instance, here in Metro Detroit and say, 'Here's the next wave of culture pioneer program we want to run. Who's interested?' You won't believe how many employees come up and say, 'Yeah, I want to be part of these diverse teams. I want to work in that agile methodology. I want to try out something where I see room for improvement.' So, that's step number one. It's really grassroots. And then we go through pitches. So, these culture pioneers are going to pitch their ideas to leadership, including myself. And then, we have the next instance, which is our leadership garages. So, now we identify leaders in the organization that look at these culture pioneers' ideas and say, 'Well, that's good. How can we scale? How can we make those ideas the way of work? And I'll really drive it into our standard processes and behaviors so you can see how we really work ideas ground up and institutionalize them. Make them the way of life in ZF.'

[00:16:35] Jan Griffiths: So, you really are focusing a lot on the culture as well as the product side of the business.

[00:16:40] Martin Fischer: Absolutely, we are. And this experiments that I started myself with the HR team initially is fascinating to see what you can gain when you work top down and bottom up on one of the same goals, right? You can preach a lot from the top, but it's much better if it's really being invented through the organization.

[00:16:59] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, when you started talking, you started talking about top-down, and inside, I'm thinking, 'Oh, no, is he just going to say top-down?' And then you started to talk about the bottom-up as well. And that is absolutely the right way to do it. Martin, you've read the 21 Traits of Authentic Leadership document, that really is a culmination of my leadership experience and the people I've interviewed on the podcast. I've learned so much from interviewing people like you. And the document, the 21 Traits, lists exactly the 21 traits of authentic leadership. Of all those traits, what resonated with you the most?

[00:17:37] Martin Fischer: I really come from the authenticity field quite a bit and also from a place of humility as a leader always. So, I find it extremely powerful to really merge with the teams to work on challenges to create results. Sure. Ultimately, I'm accountable and responsible, and the very difficult decisions I'm certainly going to make, but I find it really very much empowering and motivating to the teams to see a leader who is able to merge in. I don't need ranks and titles, and got rid of my doctor title almost, right? I almost feel strange when it's being used here in the US because it's so untypical also of our culture. That is probably the area that resonates most with me.

[00:18:26] Jan Griffiths: Oh yeah. Well, authenticity and humility. So, let's see how real you can be. Are you ready?

[00:18:32] Martin Fischer: Let's go for it.

[00:18:32] Jan Griffiths: Ready to take a turn into the personal side? Okay. In this industry, we have this awful habit of saying what keeps you up at night; I hate that question. That's not the question. The question is, Martin Fischer, what gets you up in the morning? What gets you up in the morning, like, yes, I'm going to take on this industry today. What is it that fuels you in the morning?

[00:18:54] Martin Fischer: It starts really with the idea of going to the office, and now I might not be contemporary again, not advertising remote work too much. I love coming in here. I love meeting people. I say, okay, whatever the challenge is from acquiring new business from fixing issues in the plant. Let's go grab it. And there's always a healthy balance between strategizing. I love doing that, but there's always the adrenaline, too, because we live through our crises, and we have to resolve them. So, I love coming in here, being with people, working the business, and making it better.

[00:19:29] Jan Griffiths: What is your morning routine in the morning? Getting your mindset right for the day, I've learned, is one of the most important things you can do for yourself, personally, to set yourself up for the day, not only for your own productivity but as you lead or support a team. What do you do in the morning to set yourself up for your day?

[00:19:48] Martin Fischer: Taking a shower.

[00:19:50] Jan Griffiths: Thanks for that.

[00:19:52] Martin Fischer: That's the sanctuary. Well, also the most important, sanctuary. I shower too long, but that's a little routine that I have to really think through the most important things for the day. Serving global businesses means my day typically starts pretty early because if you want to have decent overlap with Asia, with Europe. That's in the morning hours could be six o'clock, seven o'clock. So my old habit of having an hour of peace for myself is somewhat gone because otherwise, I would have to get up really early. So, typically, my day preparation starts at night. So, we always have a fine family dinner, and whatever it takes, it takes in conversations. But you would see me typically pull back into the office for a little while at home and get myself set up for the next day. So, my morning routine, given the whole time zone set up became more now an evening routine.

[00:20:43] Jan Griffiths: Is that something that you hold dear? Part of your value system is your family dinner.

[00:20:49] Martin Fischer: Oh, absolutely. There's a lot of business travel, but the time I can be here, I definitely have that family dinner. We certainly have family time over the weekends dedicated to activities. So, there is clear, clear separation as well. Fortunately, I developed the skills to really switch on and off. So, I can take my mind off business as well for a couple of hours. That's good. That's very helpful.

[00:21:16] Jan Griffiths: Martin, tell me more about The ZF Way. I've heard so much about it. What is it exactly?

[00:21:21] Martin Fischer: It's basically our framework on how we run the company. So, it has a strategy element to it. And we are a tech company transforming in so many fields, it describes our operating model. And what I find really important, it also defines the culture and the principles by which we want to run the business and by which we want to leave. And those principles, that's exactly what, as a management board, we spend a lot of time on. What's the current situation of the company? Where do we want to take it? What does it need? So, going through those principles quickly, passion is at the forefront. Okay, that's pretty universal, but also really a success factor to have that. Next one is anticipation. Going through transformation, I mean, that goes to the strategizing, and I believe that's really one of our companies and company culture strength. We are pretty strong in the field of autonomous. We are pretty strong in the field of electrification. We want to write that next wave of technology. That's why we put anticipation in. Then, we have the match pair, which is empowerment and accountability. Our discussion, Jan, right? Certainly, a way to go to really bring it to perfection. But we wanted to clearly express that aspiration. And the last one, not least is the diversity. And particularly important when you see the heritage of ours, German engineering company, right? Good German engineering. And there's real strength to it. But going forward, we've got to open up by far. We're a global company. There's so much different cultures we have with us. There's new tech. Hey, we want to attract the right talent to bring us that tech and all the most complex problems we're only going to solve if we nurture really, really, really good diversity and inclusion with the company. So, those are the five we put into the context of what the business challenges are right now.

[00:23:17] Jan Griffiths: The customer base, Martin, is changing along with the products and the culture. So, you've got this customer base that in our beloved auto industry, we knew exactly who these customers were, how they operated, how they did business. But now that's changing with the new EV startups that are coming into play. How are you able to manage that?

[00:23:43] Martin Fischer: Oh, we love that. We love that change. Because when you really reflect into our vision as being a tech company, that's what we need. What we see from these companies is really a high level of agility, its risk-taking, it's speed, in the end, to bring ideas really to product and to production. So, it's a rich source of opportunity for us to say we can chime in, right? We can learn as that hundred-plus year organization, really from our new automotive customers. So, now that's happening. We run products and programs together with those. And it's most amazing to talk to the engineers, to the teams that are engaged with new automotive customers. And I had the chance to sit a bit with a team that works for one of our West Coast customers and say, 'How is it?' For me, as a leader, it's sometimes scary because time to SOP are too short, right? And I'll be following processes. But I asked the engineers, 'How is it?' And they only had good things to say. They were even enthusiastic about working with these new customers. I said, 'Why is that?' So, they described it a little bit and said, hey, if we go with the established ones. The typical course of action is to get a rough, elaborate specification and develop our product to that specification. And should there be a change come up on the way, we better run a change process back to the customer and get permission to change a little thing against the specification. Here come the new automotive customers. There's also specification, which is good for the first two weeks of the program, and then the combined teams are going to figure out, wow, he has opportunity. We'll take another course. And they co-invent that product between the customer and the supplier team and think how engaging, encouraging, and motivating it is for an engineering team to say, 'Yeah, we really invent something together.' So I think here's a great opportunity to take that approach also back with our traditional customers. And I think it is all about much better collaboration earlier on in the game to get to even better products and do it in a very motivating and, therefore, in a very effective and very successful way in the end.

[00:25:56] Jan Griffiths: I like what you just said about taking that experience and bringing it back to other customers, a different way of working. So often in this industry, we rely on the traditional legacy OEMs to tell the tier ones what to do, and the tier ones tell the tier twos, and that model no longer works. We're in a supplier ecosystem, and we're all in this together where we have to help each other. So, I really appreciate that. I applaud you for taking that approach because you're impacting an industry. You're not just looking at it singularly through the eyes of ZF industries. It's much broader than that, but you have also taken a role as chairman of MEMA Original Equipment Suppliers Group this year as if your role heading up ZF Industries isn't enough. You're taking on this role to make sure that you really do get your arms around the industry and impact the industry. What on earth prompted you to take that on?

[00:26:54] Martin Fischer: It's a great honor that I may serve as the chairman now for a year. And that goes back to my first time here in Detroit. I was a young regional CEO, right? With little experience running my first P&L business. And that happened to be in the timeframe of 2008 and 2009. So, right through the crisis. And I got a lot of support, a lot of inspiration, a lot of help really through at the time, OESA, the MEMA OES organization at the time. At one point in time, also in 2012, I could serve the board already for the first time, and I did see the value that this organization brings to the industry and also to individual suppliers. So when being asked now if I could share the organization, I had no time to answer. Yes, I like that. It's a real honor. And I hope I can give back some of the many things I received out of MEMA at the time I needed it the most. Also, at ZF, I think we play an important role in that giving back. We're a relatively large organization. We have all the teams you can imagine, right? For anticipating market trends, for reading politics and so on. And being able to push that back to MEMA and make it a bit available also to our supplier partners, is a big deal for me.

[00:28:13] Jan Griffiths: So, you're coming at it with more of a giving, serving, servant leadership kind of approach.

[00:28:18] Martin Fischer: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:19] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, that's great to hear.

[00:28:20] Martin Fischer: At the same time, we have to drive the organization. We have to drive the industry.

[00:28:23] Jan Griffiths: Yes, of course.

[00:28:24] Martin Fischer: After transformation to electric cars, there's a lot to come and a lot of significant consequences to power train suppliers of today. So, we've got to deal with all these big issues, and I strive for that, too. But there is that original, really personal motivation to give back. You're right.

[00:28:44] Jan Griffiths: What is the biggest challenge that you see in this transformation?

[00:28:50] Martin Fischer: There's, as of recent quarters, more uncertainty around it. So that hits all OEMs, all suppliers at the same time. If the market doesn't correspond, consumers do not go for battery electric vehicles. I've been investing a lot, and we are relying on paybacks for these investments as well. So that uncertainty is definitely weighing on it. And then, on the other hand, that all can still be handled by the OEMs. I would also say by larger scale suppliers as ZF because we are hedging our bets, and it's much more difficult for very specialized suppliers— typically smaller size, midsize suppliers— to get out of internal combustion engines and into a next wave of technology. That's really something we got to be concerned of as an industry, and we got to find solutions to it because we cannot afford, we cannot need a supply base that collapses on the way of that transition. So here we need solutions.

[00:29:53] Jan Griffiths: We do, indeed. Martin, it's clear to me that ZF Industries has a very firm grasp on what's needed in the industry for the business and the culture. My mission, as you know, is to shine a brighter light on the culture piece of the transformation. What advice would you give to other CEOs and other leaders of automotive businesses out there to get their arms around the culture piece?

[00:30:22] Martin Fischer: A couple of things. I guess it starts with us, the leaders, right? To really understand what is that transformation requiring. How is the workforce changing? How can it be different in the future? That's something, right? After 25-plus years in that industry. You got to be really on top of developments and create an image of the world that you think you can serve with your company, with your enterprise. So, I think that's the first important point. Then, once you have figured that out, how to get there, right? I think it is important, and that's what we do at ZF, to consider all routes to get a business through that transformation. And, I mean, be very pragmatic. It can be an M&A that gets you the next technology wave. Maybe also the next cultural wave once you happen to acquire a startup. And just make sure you don't kill that good spirit that comes with your acquisition, but it can also happen through organic changes. And we have done both at ZF. So, first of all, really set the vision out, be clear about what it entails, and then be very considerate, very intentional on what route you take through that change, and don't let loose on it, right? It's going to be a risk. And as you say, what is now with that uncertainty of electrification, but chart up the course and stick to it for a while.

[00:31:50] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, I like that. Set the vision and be very intentional. Again, I will stress that culture is not about right or wrong. It's not about the California EV startup culture is, all right. And the old legacy culture is all wrong. No, you have to be very intentional and select the culture that works for you and your business, execute that, make that happen, and live it every single day.

[00:32:15] Martin Fischer: Yeah, maybe also talking from a big company experience, you're not going to change culture from one day to the next and also not in all of the areas which might not be required. So, what we have taken really care of is that those areas that need a new culture, that need more speed, need more agility can be even, at times, isolated from the rest of it. So, when we start new things like high-performance computers or the electric drive train, we cut those teams loose from the rest and dedicate them to the task at hand. Give them freedom, right? Give them the right cultural environment to, first of all, perform. And then, when these smaller teams have reached a certain maturity, business has reached a certain size; then we reintegrate them. So, in the powertrain area, we decided we are going to reintegrate the electric powertrain with our old transmission systems 'cause, over time, we know we got to swivel the whole thing over to electrify. And if we have a good core, a good kernel out of which we can grow the new product, the new competencies, the new culture, then this helps to pull the other side along.

[00:33:26] Jan Griffiths: How's that going? I mean, come on, you take a team that's been working on its own to develop a product, and now you've got to merge it back into the existing organization structure. I bet that's interesting.

[00:33:39] Martin Fischer: Yeah, it is interesting, right? So, it has to do, again, don't kill the small one, right? And let it be taken over by the good old traditions that we have. So, there needs to be a leader who really focuses on that and who promotes exactly the culture, the leadership behaviors, and the approaches that come with that little team. That's important. And then I think the next thing is we did great educational efforts to say, 'Hey, if you are doing a mechanical transmission today, you're not going to do that in 10 years from now, and we want to take you on that journey.' and it's a positive thing. First of all, we run our e-academy, we call that. We will train you. We will explain what is that electric drivetrain. When today, you're working on gears; tomorrow, you'll be assembling motor and power electronics and some gears, still. So, that's the next step: educate. Then, create examples of where it really works. So, it was just two weeks ago that we announced we spend another 500 million off and invest in our Gray Court, South Carolina facility that used to be transmission through and through. Now we are investing to bring electric motors inverters to that same place. And teams can either work on traditional technology, or they can work on electric drive modules. So, now that whole transformation transpires, and it's very visible. You look at that place, you look at the people, right? It's real. So, that's what's happening. And that's how we drive from small course into really that transformation for a bigger business.

[00:35:13] Jan Griffiths: Great. Well, you've got a big job ahead of you, and we all have in the automotive industry.

Martin Fischer, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. Thank you.

[00:35:22] Martin Fischer: Jan, thank you so much. Great questions you asked. And that was a fantastic conversation. Thank you.

[00:35:33] Jan Griffiths: Thank you for listening to the Automotive Leaders Podcast. Click the listen link in the show notes to subscribe for free on your platform of choice, and don't forget to download the 21 Traits of Authentic Leadership PDF by clicking on the link below and remember. Stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership.