Gen Z Perspectives on Authentic Leadership in the Automotive Industry

[Transcript]

[00:00:00] Jan Griffiths: Welcome to the Automotive Leaders Podcast, where we help you prepare for the future by sharing stories, insights, and skills from leading voices in the automotive world with a mission to transform this industry together. I'm your host, Jan Griffiths, that passionate, rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales with over 35 years of experience in our beloved auto industry and a commitment to empowering fellow leaders to be their best authentic selves. Stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership. Let's dive in.

This episode is brought to you by Lockton. Lockton redefines business insurance and people solutions with a personal touch. Their global team of 11,000 is driven by independence, not quarters, to tailor success for your business. Discover the Lockton difference where your goals become their mission. Independence it's not just how you think but how you act.

So often we focus on leadership from the top. Leadership at the top. Who's leading these Tier One companies? What's their leadership style? What does the culture look like? What does the culture look like for the future? But, today, we're going to flip that around and we're going to take a different perspective. What about the Gen Z perspective? It's all right for us to look at leadership from the top, and we think we know what everybody wants. Five different generations in the workforce. But, why don't we just ask them? What do they want? And today we're going to do exactly that. Joining me at the mic today is Victoria and Andrew. Victoria, welcome to the show.

[00:02:18] Victoria Shubelyak: Hi, thank you so much for having me here today.

[00:02:20] Jan Griffiths: Tell us a little bit about yourself, Victoria.

[00:02:22] Victoria Shubelyak: I'm a senior at Wayne State University, dual majoring in finance and supply chain. I have some previous work experience, I worked both different industries. I started in like banking and I also worked in the automotive industry, but I'm excited to talk to you about my experience and learn more and talk to you about my thoughts of authentic leadership.

[00:02:40] Jan Griffiths: I love it. Andrew.

[00:02:43] Andrew Stocke: Thank you so much for having me here, Jan.

[00:02:44] Jan Griffiths: You're very welcome. Great to have you. Now, tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:02:48] Andrew Stocke: Well, my name is Andrew. I'm a senior currently studying finance and supply chain at the Mike Ilitch School of Business at Wayne State University. Currently, I work as a financial analyst in the automotive supply chain industry. I read your book and I'm excited to discuss it with you.

[00:03:04] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, that's great. Well, I can't wait to tear into it. So, let's start off with a real easy question. Victoria, not only did you read the book, but you were actually part of the warrior project that created the book. Maybe let's do these two different ways. So, tell me about your experience working with me in developing the book. And then, secondly, I just want your raw, pure, open, and honest feedback on the book. So, tell us about the process first.

[00:03:33] Victoria Shubelyak: Yeah, so honestly, I've never worked with a book or like working, and this was a totally different project for me, so it was a really cool experience. I really liked the book in the sense that we're shifting to automotive leadership. Working with you was great. You really taught me about myself and as well as learning about new things. One thing that we decided to add to the book was adding QR codes with the podcast, so that was a really cool idea. And seeing that idea that I came up with getting implemented in the book was such a cool, phenomenal opportunity for me. But, all in all, I really enjoyed the book. Learning more about it and just really, you know, changing how leadership is going to be in the future is something really cool. And having the senior leadership leaders come to your podcast or read about their perspective about leadership was a really cool opportunity for me. So, I really enjoyed the book overall.

[00:04:23] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. And I think that we were learning together because I'd never written a book before. It's not like I know what the heck I'm doing, right? So, to me, I always think it's so important when people are embarking on these new projects. To involve everybody at all different levels in the organization. So, I recognize that you've never worked on a project like this before, but it doesn't mean that you didn't have great ideas to contribute because you clearly did. And that's a type of leadership and thinking that we need to see more of in automotive leadership culture, don't you think?

[00:05:00] Victoria Shubelyak: 100%. It was awesome that even though I don't have the most experience, you valued my opinion, heard it, and thought it out. I really valued that, and I thought that was a really great partnership and something I really enjoyed.

[00:05:12] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. Good. Andrew, you read the book. So, what did you think? What struck you initially right after you read the book? You were like, uh-huh, what?

[00:05:23] Andrew Stocke: Well, I'll say this. I was intrigued in the sense that it didn't feel like I was reading a book necessarily. It felt more so like a guide sort of like that you don't just read and think about it and say, oh, well, you know, that was an interesting read. It's sort of something that you can carry around with you. I liked that there were prompts at the end of each chapter, calls to action that you could actually apply in your everyday life. And I'm thinking if I was a leader in the automotive industry, I would probably take advantage of that. And you even say to discuss it with your team and that, it's such a simple detail, but it allows the words to kind of like make it off the page and you put into motion. You can actually use the concepts in practice. And I think that the main theme really was focused a lot on trust. It's impossible to be an authentic leader if you don't trust your employees. I mean, because otherwise, like, why are you hiring them? That kind of defeats the purpose. There was a quote from Steve Jobs in there that said, "It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do. They should be telling us what to do."

[00:06:39] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. What is your work experience so far, Andrew? Have you seen both sides to that? Have you been trusted and felt empowered, and have you not been trusted? Tell me about both sides of that with your work experience.

[00:06:52] Andrew Stocke: So, my current position and my position right before this one is night and day. The one that I'm currently in, I've been there for about a year and a half, and I can tell that my boss definitely read the book because I feel trusted. I'm given tasks that I need to complete, but I'm never micromanaged ever, whereas at my last position, that was somewhat of an issue.

[00:07:21] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. Tell me more about the micromanagement because I will tell you this: in my coaching practice, one of the biggest issues that I have to deal with is leaders feeling like they need to micromanage because they're afraid that you, as a young person, coming into the workforce, are going to fail, and they feel responsible for that, and that pushes them into this micromanagement mode. Tell me how you felt being on the receiving end of a micromanager.

[00:07:51] Andrew Stocke: Well, I guess what I would say to managers that feel the need to constantly micromanage is that if you are so afraid that I'm going to fail, if you don't trust me, why did you hire me? I mean, you hired me to do a job. I mean, if you feel like you can do that job better than me. Why are you wasting a bunch of money? You know, training me and hiring me to do said job.

[00:08:16] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, but go deeper for me, feelings. How did you feel?

[00:08:21] Andrew Stocke: Honestly, it kind of got to the point where it was just like soul-sucking, draining. It was never fun waking up at like seven in the morning for work every day, but it kind of got amplified by knowing that I was going to have to go and, you know, get micromanaged. I mean, it wasn't like all the time, but you know, more often than not, and it was kind of stemmed from goals that were more or less unattainable, just from a substance standpoint. Like, I mean, obviously, you should set goals for your team. You should be tough on standards. Yeah, I see. Like that reference?

[00:09:03] Jan Griffiths: He read the book. Tough on standards and tender-hearted with people.

[00:09:08] Andrew Stocke: And tender-hearted with people. So, I think it's okay to set goals and it's okay to hold people accountable, but you have to, number one, really look at those goals that you're setting and ask yourself, are they attainable? Not only for me but my team. And number two, you have to make sure that you are not asking too much in the sense that you're not asking your team members to do something that you wouldn't do yourself.

[00:09:40] Jan Griffiths: Why is that so different now at ELM analytics?

[00:09:45] Andrew Stocke: Well, I think that we really value our culture a lot. And that is, at least to me, what I've observed, is very trust-oriented. Like the people who assign the work generally trust the people that it's being assigned to complete it. And, you know, if they don't necessarily complete it in a timely manner, they're never, it never seems like you're being reprimanded, like more so, you know, I'm here to help you with this. How can I help you?

[00:10:22] Jan Griffiths: It's more of that nurturing coaching kind of approach rather than I'm the boss, and I'm going to tell you what to do.

[00:10:28] Andrew Stocke: And I think because of that, I've just learned so much in these last couple of, I mean, I've been there for about a year and a half now, so I think that I've learned more about finance and supply chain that I have from any of my classes, not to discount Wayne State University, but there's just something different about hands-on learning compared to classroom learning.

[00:10:50] Jan Griffiths: Yeah, that's great. Victoria, we talked a lot about trust and micromanagement. Take me up to more of a macro level, Gen Z in general. I mean, no human on the planet, doesn't matter what generation you're in, likes to be micromanaged. But I get the sense that it's even more prevalent for Gen Z. Give me the Gen Z view on trust, empowerment, and micromanagement.

[00:11:19] Victoria Shubelyak: Yeah, interesting question. I feel like the older generation, they're more used to this typical command and control leadership style; while we, as Gen Z and Gen Y, we're really wanting a different type of leadership style. We want to have a mentor, have guidance, and I feel like our generation, if we are not getting that, we're more comfortable of letting the person know, letting the manager know, and if we're continuously not getting that, we're less afraid to leave, I feel like, than the older generation. So, it'll be interesting. And I think for me, specifically, I feel like I really value a person who helps build me up, provides mentorship, and provides guidance on ways to improve. In that way, I'm learning from them, they're learning from me, and you're both a mutually beneficial relationship compared to like when we have micromanagers or people who really nitpicking things. It might be harder for you to open up and, like, really are scared to make a mistake or things like that.

[00:12:18] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. Fear, certainly, command and control drive a lot of fear into organizations. And then, you just want to retract, right? You just pull back. You completely disengage. You're not going to bring everything you've got into that organization and culture if there's fear in the air. Have you felt fear in the air, Victoria, in any way you've worked?

[00:12:41] Victoria Shubelyak: I've had a job where it was more specific things I had to do every day, and just specific tasks. There was not really any, like, a lot of room for growth or a lot of room for opportunities to take on new things. In that situation, it always felt like, okay, I do my task, make sure there's nothing wrong. And then, from there, you know, there, there wasn't a lot of room for growth. But I've also had the opposite experiences where, you know, my voice was very heard. You know, you're more willing to take on new challenges, grow as individuals, network with other individuals, and you really learn more about yourself and the company. So, I feel like having that mentor or seeking guidance in that way or having a manager that supports you in that way really helps you all in all get a better experience.

[00:13:27] Jan Griffiths: Tell me, Andrew, each chapter in the book was focused on a different leader, a different podcast interview. Who was your favorite, and why?

[00:13:36] Andrew Stocke: You know, it was a tough call for me. I'm going to give an honorable mention to chapter nine. Tough on standards, tender-hearted on people.

[00:13:45] Jan Griffiths: Doug Conant.

[00:13:46] Andrew Stocke: Yeah, absolutely. Because it just made me think of my grandpa who had a similar leadership style when he was the Chief of Police in Sterling Heights so many years ago. But he would always tell me that, I mean, I don't think that he had much of a concept of culture as we know it today in the workplace, but he would maybe refer to it more as morale. But he would always tell me whenever we talked about, you know, career prospects or like what I'm planning to do with my life. He said that if you find yourself in a leadership position, always praise in public and always reprimand in private.

[00:14:24] Jan Griffiths: Yes.

[00:14:25] Andrew Stocke: Yeah. I mean, because you really lose nothing by doing that. In fact, you can only gain so that just kind of made me think of him but I think that overall the chapter that resonated with me the most was chapter 10 that was more or less a case study on the Blockbuster-Netflix feud

[00:14:47] Jan Griffiths: Yes.

[00:14:48] Andrew Stocke: And there are lessons that can be learned from both sides. Netflix demonstrated great resilience in the sense that they were told time and time again that this would never work, but they didn't care; they kept pushing through. And, you know, look at them today. They're probably the biggest streaming service there is. And on Blockbuster's side, it's more of a cautionary tale of arrogance and hubris, that they were almost too big to fail and that, I forgot the name of the CEO, but he basically laughed, held back laughter when discussing the Netflix acquisition. And so, I think that's kind of not only something that you can apply in leadership settings, but to your life in general, because I mean, who doesn't want to be resilient? Who doesn't want to push themselves to be the best that they can? And conversely, hubris kind of leads to being content, and at that point, you're never going to improve.

[00:15:59] Jan Griffiths: No, you get complacent. I love that you saw both sides of that. You saw an opportunity to learn from both sides of that. That's great, thank you. Victoria, who was your favorite?

[00:16:12] Victoria Shubelyak: My favorite chapter was chapter seven with Sandy.

[00:16:15] Jan Griffiths: Sandy Stojkovski.

[00:16:17] Victoria Shubelyak: Yes. So, she's the CEO of Vitesco. And I actually was at a forum event later this year, and I saw her speak, and I thought, "Wow, she's like such a great leader." She definitely is very well respected in her industry, but it was really interesting in the book, hearing her perspective, how she even though she's so well respected and known in the industry, she also faces imposter syndrome and faces these issues. And it's interesting to see that from such high leaders open up about topics like that. So, I really enjoyed that, as well as hearing how she did not feel like as if she had the most experience. And she got selected for a role given her manager really rooted for her and said good things about her. So, I think, you know, having that experience for her really changed her managing style, and she started to act like him, and it really just takes one person to, like, really change the culture and how she leads her team. It was a really cool experience to learn about. So, I really enjoyed that chapter.

[00:17:14] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. Well, this idea of leaders just saying one thing to you when you're at the early point, the starting point of your career. I can't believe how many people have told me, you know, that are way up in their career, they can go back decades and remember the conversation. I recently interviewed Craig Keeys. He is the Group Executive for the INFINITI brand in the US and he started his career working in the warehouse for Nissan, a parts warehouse operation. So, he was just a guy working in a warehouse. And if you look him up on LinkedIn, you'll see all the progression. He is now a Group Executive at INFINITI. And on that podcast, he can remember exactly decades ago when a leader within Nissan spoke to him and suggested that he take a step forward. I spoke to a procurement leader at Danaher just a few days ago, and she told me a very similar story. She can go back and remember exactly the conversation that empowered her and gave her the belief in herself so that she could take on that career. And if there's one message to all the leaders out there right now, it is please spend time with the younger generation, help them, support them, nurture them, and be that leader that gives that person the one thing that they will remember 20 and 30 years from now that propelled them through that career. It's amazing that one thing can do that for you. And I just love hearing that. So, you're right. That really comes out in Sandy's interview, doesn't it?

[00:19:08] Victoria Shubelyak: Yes, a hundred percent.

[00:19:10] Jan Griffiths: Tell me some of the most important traits that you want to see in a leader. You're on this podcast representing a generation, quite frankly. What do you want to see in leadership and culture? Feel free to go back to the 21 Traits of Authentic Leadership. I know you've both read it. Give me a few of those traits that you really want to see in a leader. Andrew, let's start with you.

[00:19:36] Andrew Stocke: Strength. Honesty. Empathy. Introspection.

[00:19:47] Jan Griffiths: Okay, peel that back for me. Define strength. What does that look like and feel like for you?

[00:19:53] Andrew Stocke: A strong leader in the sense that they are able to get the job done, more or less. That they're able to do what's required of them. They're able to roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, and work alongside their team members to get the hard jobs done.

[00:20:17] Jan Griffiths: Okay, so you don't want somebody in an ivory tower in a nice suit telling you what to do, I'm guessing that's not going to work for you, right?

[00:20:24] Andrew Stocke: Yeah, I'd say probably not. I think that there's too much "do as I say, not as I do" these days, and it seems that in your book, you talk about sort of moving away from that culture. So, I wish I definitely agree with you.

[00:20:42] Jan Griffiths: Yeah. So, you want to see strength, you want to see empathy, you want to see honesty. Honesty, I think, is pretty straightforward, but tell me more about empathy.

[00:20:53] Andrew Stocke: I think that a good leader is, like we just talked about, somebody who doesn't tell you what to do but is able to lead by example and sort of show you what to do, teach you, uplift you.

[00:21:11] Jan Griffiths: Yeah.

[00:21:11] Andrew Stocke: Rather than just kind of sit in an ivory tower and give commands and try to control you.

[00:21:19] Jan Griffiths: Oh, that's a great answer. Victoria, what would you like to see in a leader?

[00:21:23] Victoria Shubelyak: Yeah. Trust, transparency, and I feel like confidence would be my three, mainly being like trust, knowing that I can trust the person, knowing that I can have conversations about them outside of work, things like that, not just only your typical day-to-day, and just being fully transparent with me on things I can improve, things I could do better, as well as just open and honest, I feel like is very important, and then just having the leader be confident, knowing that they're doing the work that we want to see and knowing that they are doing well in their role and, you know, someone that we look up to as like people working for that person.

[00:22:02] Jan Griffiths: Talk to me about being open. There's this idea of humility and vulnerability. And certainly, when I grew up in the industry, you were told and expected to keep a line between your personal life and your professional life. So, you would never talk about how you're feeling; that F-bomb was not allowed. The other F-bomb was allowed all over the place. But the F-bomb that relates to feelings, no, no, no. You were considered weak if you shared some sort of emotion or showed some level of vulnerability at work. The boss was expected to be tough at all times. That's clearly changed. Why is that so important for you?

[00:22:50] Victoria Shubelyak: Yeah. For me, I think it's important in the sense that if my boss is super strict to the point sometimes that, you know, as an individual would be more scared to make sure you're like a hundred percent perfect, there's no mistakes. You won't be able to like really always provide your best work possible. So, I feel like knowing that I can talk to my manager even about like simple things, like how their weekend was, things like that, really, you know, spur conversation and helps me feel more comfortable and providing my best work. I could.

[00:23:22] Jan Griffiths: You want them to be human and authentic. Let's turn the mic around. What questions do you have for me, Andrew? You can ask me anything.

[00:23:36] Andrew Stocke: So, I guess someone of your experience, if you're looking at someone like me, who's in their last year of school, what advice would you give to me? If not only like how to find myself in a leadership position, but how to take the appropriate actions once I'm there.

[00:24:01] Jan Griffiths: Oh, good question. In the early stages, it comes down to personal accountability, and I'm sure you've heard me say many times that I used to hate the word accountability because I associated it with blame, and it is not. Accountability simply means can I count on you? And it starts with you and the narrative that's going on in your head. Can you count on yourself? So, you've heard the infamous college speech where the military guy talks about get up in the morning and make your bed because you're training your brain to make a commitment, follow through on that commitment, make sure that it happens. So, you say to yourself, I'm going to make my bed every morning and you do it, right? So, it's being aware of the narrative and the excuses you give yourself to get out of things. Making sure that you develop that muscle of strong personal accountability. And it's from large projects to the simplest things. If you're going to show up at 10 o'clock for a meeting, show up at 10 o'clock for a meeting; even better, show up five minutes early. If you're going to tell somebody I'll call you back tomorrow, call them back tomorrow. It's these little things that add up. That generates trust. People will then trust you, trust your word. So, you've developed a core of personal accountability. Once you've got that, then you can contribute to a team and be a really strong contributing team member, and people will trust you. And then, it goes from there. The future is bright.

[00:25:43] Andrew Stocke: So, in other words, just kind of do what you say you're going to do, not only for others but for yourself too.

[00:25:49] Jan Griffiths: Yes. Yes. So, often, we talk ourselves out of things. You know, you've done it. We're all human. We do it, right? There's a narrative running around in our heads. I might say to Victoria, "I'll call you tomorrow," right? But then, something comes up tomorrow, and I'll say to myself, "Oh, I'll call her the day after. She won't mind." No. No. It's not good enough. If you say you're going to call somebody tomorrow, you call them tomorrow. Don't try and convince yourself that it's okay. He or she won't mind. It's okay. If I'm two days late with this, it is not, it is never okay. Unless you do need some more time for something, you go back to the person and say, "Hey, I can meet the deadline, but really, I'm having trouble getting some data or some information. I would like an extension of two days. Is that okay with you?" Before the due date. That's how you manage those situations. You build rapport, you build credibility, you build integrity. Thinking about how you follow through on your own personal commitments, no matter how small, I think is incredibly important to setting the right foundation for a career.

[00:26:55] Andrew Stocke: Thanks.

[00:26:56] Jan Griffiths: Okay, you're welcome. Okay, Victoria, your turn. What are you going to ask me?

[00:26:59] Victoria Shubelyak: I'm curious, what is your biggest piece of advice for individuals like myself or the Gen Z population entering the workforce? What advice do you give us?

[00:27:09] Jan Griffiths: Well, I think that, first of all, recognizing as Gen Z that there are, it's quite possible that there are five different generations in the workforce. This piece of advice, I would say, goes out to every single generation. Just because you grew up in a certain generation with certain aspirations, certain values, certain things that happened in your life that formed your view of the world and how you behave. The leadership model that you grew up with. The leadership model you expect. Recognize that with five different generations in the workforce, there are five different answers. And they're not all wrong. They're just different. So, rather than judge people for their differences in the way that they think, take a moment to have some empathy. You said empathy was important. And take a moment to understand the other person's point of view. Don't think you have all the answers, and it should be a certain way. It's never black or white. It's always about taking time to understand the other person's view and perspective and then coming together to make the right decision. If you can go through the start of your career with an understanding of what your core of personal accountability is and recognizing that everybody thinks a little differently, there are differences, and taking time to understand the other person's position, I think you're on your way. And with that, that is AutoCulture 2.0 with the Gen Z perspective from Wayne State University students. Andrew, thank you for being on the show.

[00:28:55] Andrew Stocke: Thank you very much for having me.

[00:28:57] Jan Griffiths: Victoria, thank you again for being on the show.

[00:29:00] Victoria Shubelyak: Thank you so much for having me here today.

[00:29:06] Jan Griffiths: Thank you for listening to the Automotive Leaders Podcast. Click the listen link in the show notes to subscribe for free on your platform of choice. And don't forget to download the 21 Traits of Authentic Leadership PDF by clicking on the link below. And remember, stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership.